First SFF / gaming HTPC build - spec check please

Participant · 14 Oct 2010 at 15:21

Hello guys

I want to downsize my PC footprint into laptop + discreet living room, so I've been speccing up a PC that will hopefully suit my needs for a gaming upgrade as well as an HTPC.

Could you take a look at the following:

Silverstone Sugo SG06B, Black, Mini ITX Case, Aluminum with 300W 80+ PSU £65.97 £77.51

Gigabyte GA-H55N-USB3, Intel H55 Express, 1156, DDR3 1666(OC), SATA 3Gb/s, Mini ITX, On Board VGA £69.55 £81.72

Intel i5 760, S1156, Lynnfield Quad Core, 2.8 GHz, 8MB Cache, Core Ratio 21x, 95W, Retail £124.95 £146.82

4GB (2x2GB) Corsair XMS3 Classic, DDR3 PC3-10666 (1333) Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 9-9-9-24, 1.50V £53.77 £63.18

120GB OCZ Technology Vertex 2E, 2.5" Sandforce SSD, MLC-Flash , Read 285MB/s, Write 275MB/s £159.49 £187.40

1TB Samsung HD103SJ Spinpoint F3, SATA 3Gb/s, 7200rpm, 32MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ, OEM £35.93 £42.22

1GB XFX HD 5850 Black, PCI-E 2.0(x16), 4500MHz GDDR5, GPU 765MHz, 1440 Cores, DP/ 2x DL DVI-I/ HDMI £179.58 £211.01

Logitech diNovo Mini Bluetooth Handheld Keyboard £67.50 £79.31

Net Total £756.74

Carriage £0.00

VAT £132.43

Total £889.17

...and let me know if you'd change anything? I'll be doing everything from this; watching HD video, listening to music, gaming, encoding, office work, browsing the internet...

For example, am I going overboard with the CPU do you think? Although it's not a cheap build I'd still like it to be bang-for-buck. Any glaring errors / omissions?

Many thanks.

Legion · 14 Oct 2010 at 17:58

Just a couple of things I'd change,the 300w psu supplied with the SG-06 will be right on it's limit with the i5 760 and 5850 under gaming load.
The i5 760 and 5850 are good choices btw,you'll like the extra grunt instead of an i3 if you do a fair bit of encoding while the 5850 (room in case permiting) is slightly quicker and draws less power than a 460 gtx.

The 450W Silverstone Tech. Strider PSU, SST-ST45SF is a drop in replacement for the 300w supplied and would give you more peace of mind in the long run.

You might also get naffed off with the amount of noise generated by the stock intel hsf,if you spend 5 minutes reading further down the forum you can easily see reccomendations from myself and others that work well in these tiny builds.

Other than that it all looks fine.

Participant · 15 Oct 2010 at 09:20

Thanks for that. The PSU is a point...problem being I'm already spending £900 so any extra unncessary cost would be gratefully avoided. I'm debating trying the system as is and replacing the PSU if I have any problems. However on the other hand why risk it when spending so much anyway. Hmmm I'll mull it over.

I agree about the retail fan, I'll look into some quieter alternatives.

Thanks a lot.

Baboonanza · 15 Oct 2010 at 09:37

Robbie G said:
Thanks for that. The PSU is a point...problem being I'm already spending £900 so any extra unncessary cost would be gratefully avoided. I'm debating trying the system as is and replacing the PSU if I have any problems. However on the other hand why risk it when spending so much anyway. Hmmm I'll mull it over.

I agree about the retail fan, I'll look into some quieter alternatives.

Thanks a lot.

Why not get a smaller SSD and spend the cash on PSU and heatsink? 64GB is big enough for the OS + apps & a few games. 120GB will allow more games but you'll still be restricted (ie probably having your Steam folder on a different drive) so the benefit isn't that great IMO.

fretted · 15 Oct 2010 at 11:29

Whats the point of that keyboard? Are you really going to be typing on a tiny keyboard away from the monitor/tv?

Baboonanza · 15 Oct 2010 at 11:47

fretted said:
Whats the point of that keyboard? Are you really going to be typing on a tiny keyboard away from the monitor/tv?

It's got a track pad too, which I guess would be the main use. You wouldn't do much typing on it, but it would be ok for quick messages or searching. If it works well it could be quite a nice little keyboard, though it wouldn't necessarily be my choice.

Guardsmon · 15 Oct 2010 at 13:35

suggestion - OCuk have the i5 760 on discount today...

The keyboard I assume is so he can use it as a HTPC in his living room?

As for the PSU I would highly recommend switching to the 450W. I think you'll really really be pushing a 300W to the limit with the 760 & 5850. (can the 300W even support the draw needed on the 12V+ rails?) Better to spend now rather than having to later when you find problems.

fretted · 15 Oct 2010 at 13:47

Guardsmon said:
suggestion - OCuk have the i5 760 on discount today...

The keyboard I assume is so he can use it as a HTPC in his living room?

As for the PSU I would highly recommend switching to the 450W. I think you'll really really be pushing a 300W to the limit with the 760 & 5850. (can the 300W even support the draw needed on the 12V+ rails?) Better to spend now rather than having to later when you find problems.

Buy a normal sized keyboard (or just a tad smaller) for typing and a remote control for controlling the pc from the sofa. I would agree and you should change the PSU and install a quiet cpu cooler, you don't want to hear the PC when watching movies.

Marvin · 15 Oct 2010 at 14:16

I'd have the SG07 personally. It includes a 600W SFF PSU (with 80+ rating) and has tons of space (figuratively) for large GPUs.

Participant · 15 Oct 2010 at 14:30

Baboonanza said:
Why not get a smaller SSD and spend the cash on PSU and heatsink? 64GB is big enough for the OS + apps & a few games. 120GB will allow more games but you'll still be restricted (ie probably having your Steam folder on a different drive) so the benefit isn't that great IMO.

I may well do this. I just hate running out of space and if I just end up selling it and getting a 120GB in a few months, I'll end up losing money.

fretted said:
Whats the point of that keyboard? Are you really going to be typing on a tiny keyboard away from the monitor/tv?

I want the living room PC to be a fully functioning HTPC i.e. I will be emailing, using forums, gaming, etc.

Baboonanza said:
It's got a track pad too, which I guess would be the main use. You wouldn't do much typing on it, but it would be ok for quick messages or searching. If it works well it could be quite a nice little keyboard, though it wouldn't necessarily be my choice.

I'd be using it for emailing, renaming files, some office work, forums, YouTube admin, etc...if people can type on a touch screen phone then they sure as hell can type on this thing. It's awesome.

Guardsmon said:
suggestion - OCuk have the i5 760 on discount today...

The keyboard I assume is so he can use it as a HTPC in his living room?

As for the PSU I would highly recommend switching to the 450W. I think you'll really really be pushing a 300W to the limit with the 760 & 5850. (can the 300W even support the draw needed on the 12V+ rails?) Better to spend now rather than having to later when you find problems.

I'll check out the best prices at time of order, thanks for the heads up.

Re. the PSU, I've read a feature about someone that ran a dual core Lynnfield and 5850 on this CPU without issue. Google 'gaming in tight spaces'. Granted this is a quad core CPU but...this is something I'm going to have to think about whether or not it's worth a gamble. It's unlikely that CPU + GPU will both be stressed to the max at the same time.

fretted said:
Buy a normal sized keyboard (or just a tad smaller) for typing and a remote control for controlling the pc from the sofa. I would agree and you should change the PSU and install a quiet cpu cooler, you don't want to hear the PC when watching movies.

I don't want a normal sized keyboard, it's my living room. I want it to be small, neat, and smart. I have a Logitech Harmony that will be controlling Media Centre when I'm just using the PC for media.

The quieter PSU / CPU cooler I am interested in. I certainly want noise to be low in this build. Does anyone know if I'd get away with running the Prolimatech Samuel 17 as a passive cooler? Are there any decent external PSUs that will allow me to use a large CPU tower-style cooler in the build?

Cheers all.

Guardsmon · 15 Oct 2010 at 15:45

Even with the CPU and GPU not being under full load at once I feel its is close allowing 10% margin as rule of thumb and the 5850 can draw a max of 188W (27W idle). I know its not accurate, but it is always good so see what professionals think - try the calculator

I totally understand on the mini di-novo. I have the edge for my HTPC and would never change it for a small mouse and keyboard.

External PSUs... has been mentioned before, but apart from power supplies under 200W I don't believe anyone found anything.

fretted · 15 Oct 2010 at 16:03

Robbie G said:
I want the living room PC to be a fully functioning HTPC i.e. I will be emailing, using forums, gaming, etc.

I'd be using it for emailing, renaming files, some office work, forums, YouTube admin, etc...if people can type on a touch screen phone then they sure as hell can type on this thing. It's awesome.

I don't want a normal sized keyboard, it's my living room. I want it to be small, neat, and smart. I have a Logitech Harmony that will be controlling Media Centre when I'm just using the PC for media.

Cheers all.

Just had a gander at the case specs, looks awesome btw. However, it doesnt seem to have an infrared receiver for your Logitech Harmony.

YesSirICanBogey · 15 Oct 2010 at 16:30

SG06 is in general a crap ugly chassis. SG05 is at lease slightly better.

Participant · 15 Oct 2010 at 21:05

Guardsmon said:
Even with the CPU and GPU not being under full load at once I feel its is close allowing 10% margin as rule of thumb and the 5850 can draw a max of 188W (27W idle). I know its not accurate, but it is always good so see what professionals think - try the calculator

I totally understand on the mini di-novo. I have the edge for my HTPC and would never change it for a small mouse and keyboard.

External PSUs... has been mentioned before, but apart from power supplies under 200W I don't believe anyone found anything.

You are right it is close. But if it works it will save me £50. If it has problems then the worst that could happen should be some intermittent crashes etc. rather than a full blown explosion, I hope

.

fretted said:
Just had a gander at the case specs, looks awesome btw. However, it doesnt seem to have an infrared receiver for your Logitech Harmony.

Well spotted, however I have asked elsewhere about this, and I'm going to buy a USB IR receiver from Ebay, one from a MS Media Centre remote if necessary.

YesSirICanBogey said:
SG06 is in general a crap ugly chassis. SG05 is at lease slightly better.

The only difference I know of is a vented solid aluminium front panel that hides the case fan. Unsure as to how this difference suddenly makes it crap and ugly. Can you clarify your comment? Are there some other differences between the 5 and the 6 that I may not be aware of?

Legion · 16 Oct 2010 at 16:23

Robbie G said:
Re. the PSU, I've read a feature about someone that ran a dual core Lynnfield and 5850 on this CPU without issue. Google 'gaming in tight spaces'. Granted this is a quad core CPU but...this is something I'm going to have to think about whether or not it's worth a gamble. It's unlikely that CPU + GPU will both be stressed to the max at the same time.

Already stated in my first reply that you are 'on' the limit with the psu whilst gaming,stressing it further i.e.running prime and furmark together would shut down the pc/blow something.
'gaming in tight spaces' that's a dual core Clarksdale cpu (i3) which is 32nm where as Lynnfield quads (i5)are 45nm and obviously sap more juice and run somewhat warmer.
Buying a £70 case and expecting it to run this much power without further expense is a bit unrealistic.

Packing high end hardware into dinky boxes is a lot of fun indeed and it's by no means cheap to build a 'potent' gaming rig into one.
In all honesty and after building 6 gaming/high powered sff's in the last few months for friends and family,attempting to skimp £50 on the heart of the build just isn't worth contemplating.
Dropping the cpu down to an i3 maybe the answer here if you cant bring yourself to find the extra for the psu.

Or like someone else further up sensibly suggested you could consider the SG-07 which already comes with a 600w psu built in and is closer the the combined price of the SG-06 and uprated psu,it's also more suited to higher end hardware by default,but the trade-off is that it has a slightly bigger footprint.

Is there any particular reason you want the Sugo?,Lian-li's M-itx offerings are also incredibly good and offer more psu options as they all can take full size atx psu's.
Case choices are ofc a purely personal thing as it's you at the end of the day that has to live with it and look at it.

Robbie G said:
The quieter PSU / CPU cooler I am interested in. I certainly want noise to be low in this build. Does anyone know if I'd get away with running the Prolimatech Samuel 17 as a passive cooler? Are there any decent external PSUs that will allow me to use a large CPU tower-style cooler in the build?

No pico psu available for the wattage you will be needing for this build they top out ~160w.

Prolimatech Samuel 17 as a passive cooler? Not a hope in hell.

Participant · 18 Oct 2010 at 12:15

Legion said:
Already stated in my first reply that you are 'on' the limit with the psu whilst gaming,stressing it further i.e.running prime and furmark together would shut down the pc/blow something.
'gaming in tight spaces' that's a dual core Clarksdale cpu (i3) which is 32nm where as Lynnfield quads (i5)are 45nm and obviously sap more juice and run somewhat warmer.
Buying a £70 case and expecting it to run this much power without further expense is a bit unrealistic.

Packing high end hardware into dinky boxes is a lot of fun indeed and it's by no means cheap to build a 'potent' gaming rig into one.
In all honesty and after building 6 gaming/high powered sff's in the last few months for friends and family,attempting to skimp £50 on the heart of the build just isn't worth contemplating.
Dropping the cpu down to an i3 maybe the answer here if you cant bring yourself to find the extra for the psu.

Or like someone else further up sensibly suggested you could consider the SG-07 which already comes with a 600w psu built in and is closer the the combined price of the SG-06 and uprated psu,it's also more suited to higher end hardware by default,but the trade-off is that it has a slightly bigger footprint.

Is there any particular reason you want the Sugo?,Lian-li's M-itx offerings are also incredibly good and offer more psu options as they all can take full size atx psu's.
Case choices are ofc a purely personal thing as it's you at the end of the day that has to live with it and look at it.

No pico psu available for the wattage you will be needing for this build they top out ~160w.

Prolimatech Samuel 17 as a passive cooler? Not a hope in hell.

Thanks for this.

To answer your questions...

- I have decided to upgrade the PSU. No point spending all this then skimping on something as important as power supply.

- Small footprint is a necessity for me for this build. If it's possible to get the same hardware in a SG05/6 vs. a 7, then I will...

- That said, I'm fairly keen on the idea of fitting a passive CPU cooler in, but with the SG05 it doesn't look like it's going to happen. In this case I will consider the 7 instead, especially since I wouldn't have to buy another PSU.

- Re. the Lian-Lis, can you give me the model numbers of cases you'd recommend for my application please?

Your comments have been helpful, thanks.

Guardsmon · 18 Oct 2010 at 17:04

Re the lian li's. I think thei PC-Q08B is going to be your only option with the length of card you want.

Legion · 18 Oct 2010 at 18:34

Robbie G said:
Thanks for this.

To answer your questions...

- I have decided to upgrade the PSU. No point spending all this then skimping on something as important as power supply.

- Small footprint is a necessity for me for this build. If it's possible to get the same hardware in a SG05/6 vs. a 7, then I will...

- That said, I'm fairly keen on the idea of fitting a passive CPU cooler in, but with the SG05 it doesn't look like it's going to happen. In this case I will consider the 7 instead, especially since I wouldn't have to buy another PSU.

- Re. the Lian-Lis, can you give me the model numbers of cases you'd recommend for my application please?

Your comments have been helpful, thanks.

You wont be able to run the cpu passive with an i3/i5 build in M-itx,that stops at Atom based systems.

The Lian-li PC-Q08B is quite a lot bigger than the SG-05/06 and it has a lot more cooling potential and storage,but due to it's size it may be out of your "footprint" range.

The other newcomer is the Lian-li PC-Q11 you wouldnt fit a 5850 in there but it will take a 460gtx no problem.

It's also worth waiting to see what the length of the new 6850 and 6870 cards are when they are released,if they come in at 8.5" inches and under they will also fit into this case.

Holding up my own fully watercooled PC-Q08B build while waiting for 69xx cards to appear and hopefully there'll be a block for them soon after if they arent using the same pcb's as the 58xx cards.