First time builder looking for advice.

NaomiRE

NaomiRE

NaomiRE

Associate
Joined
17 Dec 2008
Posts
36
Hey guys,

I'm totally new to this and posted over in General Discussion and everyone suggested I head over here to this board to look for some help and advice :)

I know a bit about stuff but my knowledge isn't fantastic, I've started researching stuff and reading up on a few bits and pieces but I'll keep you updated on if it makes sense to me lol. I'm a fairly quick learner and pretty technically minded when I need to be so I'm hoping it will all start making much more sense to me soon :)

I've got an old PC stack from quite a few years ago, I was considering using it as an autopsy piece really, getting inside and just checking things out, working out what goes where etc with the help of the wonderful world wide web, so that when the time comes I'll stand at least a small chance of understanding how to put the theory into practice lol.

Ultimately, I'm looking to end up with a pretty decent gaming machine, (hopefully lol). It'd be quite nice to go with dual graphics cards and I'd like a machine with a fair bit of space and power behind it. Now to me that all sounds great, but I've always relied on someone else telling me what's going into my computer to get what I want, so I'm starting the research at the bottom. The cooling side of it is something I'd definately like to look into more - all I can really say I know is that the general consensus always seems to be that water cooling is the better choice, at least that's how it seems, but other than that I'm just your average "Water? With electricity? Uhhhh...:eek:" type person lol, plus I'm picking up on the fact that water cooling is pretty advanced and I should probably stick to air cooling if I'm going to try turning my hand at this lol. I've read a few articles that recommend the OCZ Vendetta cooling stack combined with things like the Antec 900/1200 cases but I've not had a chance to really look into them yet. On the graphics side I've been trying to read up about SLI/CrossFire setups, how they compare etc but I've only brushed the surface and it was late so not sure how much I took in lol. On the processor front I'll admit I'm clueless, the best I know is that quad core sounds better than dual core and the new i7 sounds soooooperdoooper lmao.

So anyways, I would love as much advice as possible please lol. I don't know where to start so be gentle with me. I'm also not totally sure what to put in this post to get the most effective advice, so please don't hesitate to ask away and I'll do my best to explain what I'm thinking lol :D

Naomi
 
first questions for before any specing is the budget, this will determine the your base spec

personally i would avoid dual graphics cards as performance gain to cost varies greatly between games, with some games even performing worse under multiGPU then single GPUs

cooling, if this is your first build in a while and you have not tried Water cooling before, stick with air, the tuniq tower or thermalright ultra extreme are both popular if your case can hold them

dual core Vs Quad core (some pros and cons)
dual core
pros
higher clock speed so better for most games today
lower power usage
easier to overclock
cons
slower then quads in multi-threaded applications
quad core
pros
more cores so arguably more future proof as more games are becoming multi-threaded
cons
higher power usage
 
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Budget wise I can probably spare a couple of thousand or so. Last "off the shelf" machine was 2500, (XPS M2010), and its having its THIRD graphics card put in next week, (fourth if you include the one it was sold with :| )... the first replacement lasted 10months, this last one lasted a month and I'm really unimpressed, especially as I'm not sure of the reason behind it just dying like this again.

A few people recommended dual graphics card as it would halve the load etc, but I don't know how much accuracy is behind that. I've noticed some of the top spec computers you see out there for gaming tend to have dual cards, so I'm just building the picture around things like that lol.

I wouldn't have thought I used anything that was that heavily graphic-laden as to go through 3 graphics cards so far, I'm less of a gamer as I am of using a couple of 3D worlds, (SL etc), and spend a fair bit of time in Photoshop CS2, (considering a CS3 upgrade) but I know people running those on machines far older than mine with lower spec graphics cards without issue. But if it IS the issue, I'd like to make sure that I'm not replacing a graphics card every few months :(


From what I've read this evening, quad core was starting to appeal to me more for that "future proof" aspect.

How do I go about looking at cases, in the sense that, how do I know what fits what lol? As I've said, I've never poked around inside a computer before so although I get that some cases don't hold some things and some do, I'm not 100% sure about why lol...

Naomi
 
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I should add though, on the graphics front, although I'm not currently using anything overly amazing game wise, I'd like to make sure that I have the ability to in the future if I want to. I'd rather not skimp and hold back a bit now because I don't need it so much to find that in 6months I'm kicking myself and having to look at upgrading cause of it lol.
 
from your needs, i think your best approach is 1 fast gpu for gaming/main use and 1 slow GPU if needed for any additional monitors if you have a over 2 monitors connected to your main GPU.

a fast single card soultion is less hassle esp if when choosing the MB. this is dependant upon the CPU socket

LGA775
p45 /P43 chipset for single card
X48 for crossfire
nforce 7 for SLi

LGA 1366
X58 for CF or SLi

AMD also has SLi or CF MBs to choose from
 
Like the above poster said, unless you're thinking of using 2+ monitors, stick to one graphics card. A single fast card will be better for gaming than two slower cards, although you could get one fast card plus a crossfire/SLi compatible motherboard so if Dual GPUs do become super-good, you have that route to go down.

As for cases well, look through Overclockers site and see what appeals to you. General consensus from my reading these boards is if you're splashing out, go Lian Li or Silverstone, or for a bit less, the Antec 300.

As for Quad vs. Dual, if you do go Quad, I'd suggest the Q9550 or similar. Reason being is that they use newer tech over the Q6600s (and priced accordingly).

If you can definitely say £2000 as a budget, plus whether you need an OS, how much HD space you need, whether you need monitor, mouse, keyboard or speakers and what optical drives you need, someone will make you a decent spec.
 
Hey all,

Thanks for this great advice!! I think 2k is probably my safest budget right now, I will indeed need an OS, as far as HD space goes, a fair bit but tbh I'm not 100% sure what would be best, (current machine I have has 160gb and I'd say it runs at a pretty constant 65% full), and yep I'll need to get a monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers. Drive wise as long as it's got the ability to burn cd/dvd as well as play them that's all good. I have a NetGear router so I'm guessing I'll need a wireless network card, didn't really think about that before lol.

One question that came to me last night, might be a stupid one but hey ho lol, was that my last machine has bluetooth and its something I used all the time before it went up the spout, (insert fed up broken computer face here), is there a way to include that? If there is, that'd be fantastic cause as I say its something I used all the time with the machine.

If someone would be able to make me a spec out of all that, that would be absolutely awesome lol.

Naomi
 
What size monitor are you looking at? And do you want generic mouse/keyboard/speakers, or something special/particular?

Personally at 2k I think you can get an awesome setup, and have really nice peripherals as well. I had a go at a spec but for £2k I actually struggled to fit it, even with a GTX280 1GB. I reckon you might get an i7 rig for that budget; someone else will be good for doing that for you.
 
Hmm, Bizarre that no one has made a spec yet, i'll show you the one I posted up a few days ago for people to comment on:

spec-2.jpg


Now I know this is way under your budget (Not really a bad thing), but as far as the information goes there is nothing wrong with this spec. The only things people have said is get a little better CPU Cooler (Although i'm sticking with this one for aesthetic reasons). Also, the extension cables on there are only needed if you choose a big case like the 1200 and want to cable manage as there may not be enough length in the PSU cables to go behind the mobo tray and back up.

I suggest you use that for a basis, plus a good monitor such as this 22" Asus monitor or similar, and then check out mice and keyboards and look see what suits you. Big favourites in the mice department seem to be the Logitech gaming mice, although I have a Razer mouse and consider it one of the best purchases I ever made.

So yeah, have a poke around and see what you come up with and make a spec, and if there's no more replies to this thread make a new one with a spec already on it. As for not filling the budget...well, that's not always a bad thing really.
 
1. since it appears that you don't upgrade that often, you should think about going for an i7 intel and a lga1366 motherboard, that way you will be more "futute proof" (100% future proof is a myth; but with newer tech you will last longer). doesnt sound like you are a hardcore gamer so don't worry about dual vs quad debate. if you need the quads can handle games also ;)

2. better to go for single video card, plenty of powerful ones today. it also gives you the benefit of allowing you to add a second in the future should you need more. considering you don't really game that much you probably don't even need a beast + also the resolution you want to display is important in your selection of video card. ie 1900x1200 will require more powerful card than 1280x1024 res.

3. avoid watercooling if first build, air cooling is very good and will allow you to overclock plenty. (watercooling etc... is for extreme overclocking.) if you plan to overclock on air, it is recommended to use an aftermarket cpu cooler such as Noctua, TRUE or Tuniq.

4. determine a budget and what you need to include (how many and size monitors, OS, peripherals etc...) then you can get better custom specs

PS cancel that latest video card update if you are going to build a new machine, may as well put that cash into new system

here is an initial recommendation based on your £2k:
- good single gpu card (you could go for a ATi 4870 1gb also they are the same in terms of performance)
- a psu that will allow you to add a second card if you require in future (silent, quality and modular)
- quality 24" monitor (you keep this long time)
- quality case for air cooling (you keep this long time http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/produc...ex=136&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=62&g=qhttp://www.lian-li.com/v2/tw/flashpage/b25/b25-index.html)
- good speaker system (seems more expensive but the watt output is much better than rest and worth it - also put in a 2.1 system since this is a comp, and not a home theatre ;))
- best to use cable for internet connection on desktop, but if you need wireless Linksys WMP54G 54Mbps Wireless Desktop PCI Network Adapter, for bluetooth get a usb adapter Belkin F8T012UK 100m Bluetooth USB Adapter


captureot5.jpg
 
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^^ Good spec. However I would look around a little more with stuff like cases and speakers. Different people like different things, and when it comes to audio quality you really do want to deeply consider. Personally, I much prefer 5.1 to 2.1 audio, also I think Lian Li cases look terrible (Lian Li tends to be the Marmite of cases if this board is anything to go by) and arguably the biggest rival at that price range is the Antec 1200 which would be something else to look at. On top of that, the BFG 260 has a much longer warranty than the Zotac, and also possibly has the BFG Trade Up Program but don't quote me on that.

But other than case, speakers and mouse/keyboard, you can't argue with that spec really.
 
cases are subjective, personally i prefer aluminium to heavy steel cases. this lian li has great airflow and is already equipped with soundproofing mats, hdd dampening mounts, removable mobo tray, pre-fitted watercooling holes etc... Again case selection is personal, but my main point is choose a quality case since you will keep that the longest.

re speakers, i recommend 2.1 for a computer since I only really ever use my 7.1 for my home cinema system and not my pc, since would rather watch movies on couch with a bigger 42" screen. but if you want a 7.1 system make sure you get quality speakers Creative GigaWorks 7.1 S750 THX Speakers (51MF7010AA001), that was really my point.

re GFX card I recommend the Zotac purely due to price, BFG is a great brand but at that price I would recommend an Ati 4870 1GB Powercolor ATI Radeon HD 4870 1024MB GDDR5 TV-Out/Dual DVI/HDMI (PCI-Express) - Retail which is 15% cheaper than BFG and the same in terms of performance. I don't think you need a 10 year warranty on gfx card since that is probably the component that usually gets upgraded the most. Personally I keep a video card 1 to 2 years max.
 
Hey thanks guys for these, they're great.. not getting on much to check on stuff what with xmas impending etc but I am still around and am still interested to see these specs!

I'd be interested to hear more about peoples views on the Lian Li vs Antec1200 cases... aesthetically the Antec1200 seriously floats my boat but the Lian Li is also pretty hawt looking lol... but I'm just going on aesthetics and would like to hear more from you guys regarding their actual performance!

Cheers guys and if I don't get back on pre-chrimbo - all the best!

Naomi
 
Is i7 really necessary? I'd much rather go for a good e8400 and cheaper mobo and perhaps throw a 280 or 4870x2 in the mix, especially if you're only using it for SL and light gaming. Despite the plethora of arguments and fanboynism going around, there is about 5FPS in i7, dual or quadcores. I'd invest in good aftermarket cooling and a strong graphics card. You can always overclock the hell out of a E8400 and a graphics card.
 
To be honest, you can get a cracking machine for about £800, probably less. If you so insist on dropping 2k, you should go watercooling and SLI 280's or go insane and XFire 4870x2 (not sure if you can but, WOW if you can). 2k is a lot of gold for what you want to do with it.

PS. Pardon the 2 posts. Tried linking a spec and Photobucket is messing me about now.
 
Re: Antec 1200 vs. Lian Li. It seems to me on these boards there's a distinct rift; Those who like Lian Li's and those who don't. Personally I think they look naff; someone else will tell you they look awesome.

As far as the 1200 I recommended and the Lian Li Lunarwolf recommended, go for the one you like the look of best.
 
Hey guys!

Right, I have some questions about graphics cards lol...

I have/had a Dell XPS M2010 bought just over 2 years ago - it had its first graphics card replaced in Jan 2008, then another in November 2008, then another in December 2008 and it was returned 6th January and on 9th January it died again. They took the machine away for 3 weeks to fix the graphics card, the bluetooth that had died, the usb ports that had died and the cd rom drive that refused to allow a reformat because it didn't recognise the drive after the reinstall started. In the past three days, its barely had much use - it had things like firefox, msn, aim installed, it had antivirus/reg mechanic and firewall installed, a couple of mmorpg's installed but not used, windowblinds installed to change the visual theme, desktopx, (also to jazz up the visual theme) and a new desktop wallpaper... it lasted 3 blimmin days before the graphics card has seemingly blown again! :mad: As you can imagine I'm really narked off about this... now my question is, do you think this is my doing or an underlying problem that Dell have chosen to not bother looking at fixing?

I could understand it more when I was putting the machine through a lot of use - regular long use of a couple of mmorpg's, photoshop cs2, plus other general home use...I felt that okay, maybe I was sort of "abusing" my machine - it was on for long times every day etc, it was probably overheating a bit etc etc...but in the last 3 days it's been on for a few hours each evening and short of scrolling through a few forums, doing some net banking and installing some stuff I haven't even begun to use it like I normally would...surely this is not normal?

My main concern is that if I replace this machine with a custom built machine that I'll have the same problems, except whereas my dell insurance will cover the repairs now, a custom built rig will be at my own expense...which just isn't feasible!

I'm not asking for tech advice here, just you guys have far superior knowledge to me and before I commit to any new machine - custom built or even store bought - I need some major advice about why I have a 2 year old machine that is about to have its 5th graphics card if you include the one it came with :( Does that make any sense?

I just figure its a bit of a commitment if I go in for a new machine and the same thing happens over and over again.

Any ideas?
 
Well they came and put a new motherboard and graphics card in the machine today and it lasted... wait for it... 32 minutes and died again. Phoned Dell again and expressed my feelings on the matter...I was nearly polite too!!...and they are going to give me a new replacement. Not the same machine, because its discontinued, but a smaller one...M1730. Took a look at it, I guess its okay, its only a 17" opposed to my 21" which is a shame but I plan to do some major emotion expressing on this one and make sure that the specs meet the purchase price of my old machine and not just the same spec... even the same spec (excluding the xp vs vista part) is just over £1500 cheaper than my current broken one and tbh, after all the crap I've had to put up with I want £1500 worth of upgrading on this new machine. If they have to lose money, tough titties for them!

Anyway, I shall assume no one could provide any ideas on the above so I shall leave it be. See where I get with this new machine for a while I think and then start reconsidering a self-build when the need is not urgent and its more because I WANT to...not that that makes much sense lol.

Thanks for all the help and advice up till now, the page is bookmarked and its very much a plan for the near future!
 
The problem is you have no idea what replacement parts they are putting back in and I would wager they are re certified or used parts. I have never had good experience with pre built comps and ever since building them myself and learning the basic ropes of building and maintaining them I find I have a far stable and generally faster machine.

The problem is it takes some time to learn and deal with problems but if money is not a major factor I would imagine you could find a reputable local shop to build it, dial it in and maybe even have some sort of insurance/ maint plan you could do.

As far as the actual issue with your comp that could be many number of things but as I said it would be simply due to bad parts being put back in as companies do that to save cash and half the time the "new" stuff they are putting back in are crap broken to begin with that some dude plugged in a test setup for 5 minutes and saw it worked and dubbed it "re certified". Could also maybe be a bad PSU blowing stuff up. A lot of those pre built machines use crap parts where it really matters like crappy PSU's and such.

By building a machine yourself with quality parts you should end up with a more stable, powerful machine and depending on your choices case and fan wise a cleaner inside with lots better airflow which leads to a longer lasting computer. If you use your computer a decent amount its worth it to learn the ropes of one and build your own system imo. Allows you to work and fix things yourself and not have to deal with weeks and weeks of turn around time just to get something back that still does not work. Also you usually can get a lot more for your money by doing it yourself and if something does break you can usually RMA it or buy a replacement and still come out ahead unless your pre built is one of those basic "Walmart" Pc's.
 
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