Fixed Penalty Disposals

Burnsy2023

Burnsy2023

Burnsy2023

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So, since Fox loves me making these type of threads, I thought I'd see what people think about this. I'm sure there have been threads about this before, but perhaps this will shed a bit of light on enforcement.

Some quotes:

We are also increasing penalties for a range of other driving offences to a level which reflects their seriousness and which will ensure that they are consistent with other similar penalty offences:

a non-endorsable £30 fixed penalty notice will rise to £50
an endorsable £60 and non-endorsable Fixed Penalty Notice will rise to £100
an endorsable £120 Fixed Penalty Notice will rise to £200
the fixed penalty notice for driving with no insurance will rise from £200 to £300
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https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/fixed-penalty-levels-for-motoring-offences

So along with the higher prices, there are two offence codes which are able to be ticketed:

There are two specific types of careless driving with offence codes shown below:
RT88575 – Drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road / in a public place without due care and attention.
RT88576 – Drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road / in a public place without reasonable consideration to others.
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Examples of relevant offences are as follows:
Situations of lower-level careless and inconsiderate driving where other drivers are not unduly affected, such as driving too close to the vehicle in front, failing to give way at a junction (no evasive action by another driver), overtaking and forcing into a queue of traffic, wrong lane at a roundabout, ignoring a lane closed sign and forcing into an orderly queue, lane discipline such as remaining in lane two or three when lane one is empty and there is no other vehicle to overtake, inappropriate speed, wheel spins, hand brake turns, as well as other similar careless driving manoeuvres.
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With the following qualifier:

NOTE: The standard of driving required by a driver is an objective one, impersonal and universal, fixed in relation to the safety of other users of the highway. It is in no way related to the degree of proficiency or degree of experience attained by the individual driver. A person is to be regarded as driving without due care and attention if (and only if) the way he/she drives falls below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver. A person is to be regarded as driving without reasonable consideration for other persons only if those persons are inconvenienced by his/her driving.
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I must admit, the types of things open to an FPN seem really quite broad which has surprised me a bit.
 
overtaking and forcing into a queue of traffic... ignoring a lane closed sign and forcing into an orderly queue
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I'm a bit baffled by these, I thought the accepted wisdom for a closing lane was that you get to the end of it and filter in, rather than stopping and holding up traffic whilst you force yourself into a gap?

Without wanting to start a flame war, it seems like you can be ticketed by any officer who is on the hammer blob on any particular day.

Perhaps I've read them incorrectly or maybe they're just ambiguous to the uninitiated, though.
 
Certainly sounds like it contravenes the merge in turn rule.

But then since when did what the police enforce have anything to do with either common sense or logical thought?
 
They are very vague, whilst I agree there's far to much antisocia/oblivious road behaviour, it kinda leaves people open to suffering quite harshly for simple lapses of judgment that we all suffer from, from time to time.

I guess it depends how the police enforce it, as it seems very discretionary and an unscrupulous officer could quite easily start dishing out fines left right and centre. Be interesting to see some data on how these new rules are being applied in real life.

I guess if it becomes common place then a car cam will be vital defence for appeals. Good news for that industry. Might cost quite a lot to administrate the appeals too if many people start getting fined.
 
Note overtaking and forcing way into an orderly queue.

Merging in turn is fine, moving out of lane one to use lane two to jump to the front of a queue isn't.

Surprised a few people with the new £100 fines :D
 
Of course in the eyes of the lane 1 brigade anyone merging in turn is 'forcing way into an orderly queue', so where do you draw the line?
 
It does get pretty complicated, I'd argue that when people cruise past a long line of slowing of traffic that's blatantly due to a lane closure and nipping in at the the end is a bit naughty, but how do you quantify that as opposed so someone who genuinely didn't get a safe opportunity to join the unclosed lane?

If you are in the second lane, you kinda are by definition in the act of overtaking if you're using the lanes correctly.. You don't necessarily need to have just pulled out.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Examples of relevant offences are as follows:
Situations of lower-level careless and inconsiderate driving where other drivers are not unduly affected, such as driving too close to the vehicle in front, failing to give way at a junction (no evasive action by another driver), overtaking and forcing into a queue of traffic, wrong lane at a roundabout, ignoring a lane closed sign and forcing into an orderly queue, lane discipline such as remaining in lane two or three when lane one is empty and there is no other vehicle to overtake, inappropriate speed, wheel spins, hand brake turns, as well as other similar careless driving manoeuvres.
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So basically, if an officer doesn't like you very much they can give you 3 points. Great :rolleyes:
 
mattyfez said:
It does get pretty complicated, I'd argue that when people cruise past a long line of slowing of traffic that's blatantly due to a lane closure and nipping in at the the end is a bit naughty, but how do you quantify that as opposed so someone who genuinely didn't get a safe opportunity to join the unclosed lane?
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The theory is there shouldn't be a long line of slow moving traffic to go along past - that both lanes should be used up to shorter roughly equal lengths. In practise it just simply doesn't work, for more complicated reasons than people just not understanding it and the whole thing should be replaced.
 
Some of it is ridiculous and open to objection, some things in wrong lane in roundabout that can easily happen to a person driving in a new area. Yet more distractions for driving because of the worry of getting a fine.:rolleyes:
 
Rroff said:
The theory is there shouldn't be a long line of slow moving traffic to go along past - that both lanes should be used up to shorter roughly equal lengths. In practise it just simply doesn't work, for more complicated reasons than people just not understanding it and the whole thing should be replaced.
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Replaced with what though, I'm not sure how else to do a lane closure.. And people (rightly or a wrongly) begrudge giving up spaces when others razz down half a mile of traffic and push in at the end.. Human nature I guess.. Regardless, it's a good example of how these new rules are open to interpretation /abuse.
 
lemonade said:
Some of it is ridiculous and open to objection, some things in wrong lane in roundabout that can easily happen to a person driving in a new area. Yet more distractions for driving because of the worry of getting a fine.:rolleyes:
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Not really...at a marked approach use the lane that marks your exit, for an unmarked approach left hand lane for any exit before 12 o'clock, right hand lane for anything beyond 12 o'clock, simple really...
 
There are some people I know who should never have past their test, the simple task of using a roundabout for these people is complicated, they use the middle lane on a motorway because they think lane 1 is for lorries only, for this reason the new laws may make them think.
 
The only thing I'm bothered about on the roads is people not indicating, especially when I come to a stop at roundabouts thinking the car coming from the right is going to go straight across the roundabout only for them to turn left without indication. This is extremely irritating.
 
lane discipline such as remaining in lane two or three when lane one is empty and there is no other vehicle to overtake
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Good news! Already a punishable offence on the continent and the motorways are much more pleasant to drive on as a result because lane discipline is so much better.
 
paradigm said:
Certainly sounds like it contravenes the merge in turn rule.
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Again I find myself pointing out: it's only merge-in-turn when there's a sign, in big letters, on an official background, saying "Merge in turn". Only then. Really, only then. In all other circumstances get over as soon as it is safe to do so. Merge-in-turn is NOT the default.
 
Meridian said:
Again I find myself pointing out: it's only merge-in-turn when there's a sign, in big letters, on an official background, saying "Merge in turn". Only then. Really, only then. In all other circumstances get over as soon as it is safe to do so. Merge-in-turn is NOT the default.
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But everyone being in one lane immediately, rather than using both lanes until lane 2 ends & then merging in turn, will make the queue longer and back up to the preceding roundabout etc quicker :(.
 
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