Flatmate issues

[anksta]

Alright, just writing on here because I'm a bit wound up and it's alright for a vent.

I live in a flat with 2 people in zone 2 in London, I don't really get on with either of them but I've been here the longest. When I moved in, 2 years ago, the flat was an absolute hole but it was all I could afford then and it allowed me to smoke in the flat. Since then I've seen the washer, fridge freezer replaced, cleared the balcony (you couldn't stand on it), fixed the shower, bought and paid for almost every thing of use in this flat and generally made it a nice home.

This girl moved in about 2 months ago, just graduated and still lives like a student, can barely see the floor in her room, has no curtains and is up until 2am on the phone almost every night.

The other night I had had an awful day at work and she'd started a new job so I went in and asked her how her day was and seeing I was going to go to bed early I asked her if she wouldn't mind not slamming every single door in the flat like me and the other guy don't, for one night.

She in return told me to stop smoking in the flat.

I'm in a quitting cycle (smokers know) at the minute so I said that I definitely would be soon if she'd just bear with me. Eventually we whittled it down to I'd stop in a week.

In that week however, not only has she not stopped slamming every single door, her and her boyfriend, she's picked up annoying habits of singing at the top of her voice like she's practising for the Royal Albert Hall until 1am on a week night and at 7am on a Sunday. On top of all her other stuff like not emptying the bins etc I decided she can forget about any sort of deal.

Being a smoker doesn't make me a bad flatmate and not being a smoker doesn't make her a good one.

So last night she's been out all night and comes home at half 10 and starts banging on my door (sober) asking me why I haven't stopped. I told her that despite the deal not being anywhere close to a 50/50 swap she's not even managed to do that. It got a bit heated and I told her if she didn't like it she should move out and pay 40% more to live further away (we're very central and pay like 450 a month).

Fast forward to tonight and in she storms again guns blazing with how she's never met anyone so unutterably selfish and on and on. Then she sends her wet blanket boyfriend to give it the whole "listen mate you're a nice guy but..." routine while she hovers in the background.

By this point I've had enough and reverting to just leave me alone mode.

I know I'm being stubborn and immature about the whole mess but she moved in her when I was smoking and I do at least 70% of everything here, I do tests frequently of things like stopping taking the bins out for a few days, not buying toilet roll or washing up liquid or washing up plates when they're there and within 3 days the place is a bombsite and I cave in.

She's in her room now slamming doors for the fun of it and in a fit of hysterics (which I might add is about 2 notches down from how loud she was crying about what she saw on Benefit's St last week).

I just wanted to have a bit of a vent, you can all have a go if you want I don't care. I know I'm right and normally I wouldn't think it's worth it and cave in but really it's a bit far this time.

 

[anksta]

Stop smoking, you're stinking the place out and making her and her clothes smell.

Can't you smoke outside?

I can, and would but I make enough sacrifices in this flat as it is and to have my one solace in the flat be invaded in such an extreme way (last night when I was in bed she was slamming my door open with the bleach and toilet rolls she'd bought that day (the first ones she's bought in 3 months) and shouting about it while the other guy was asleep) is not on.

Seems a pretty fair deal to me. Keep the noise down and ill stop stinking up the place. (I'm a smoker so can't judge).

I imagine she knew you smoked before moving in?

She claims that the advert said it was non smoking which it probably did say, but I didn't write it and have repeatedly pointed that out. She didn't unpack for over a month and when she did she stole half the furniture out of the living room including 2 lamps (one of which is mine) because her light had gone out - and then when I went in and replaced the bulb for her without being asked she didn't replace them but instead chose to leave the old bulb on the kitchen counter instead of the bin which was 6 inches to the left.

Smoking is a bad habit that does make things smell and it is inconvenient I get all that and am not debating that. I've been mature and friendly and welcoming (I literally had to make her bed for her the second night she was here as she was just sleeping on a bare mattress because she couldn't be bothered making it), I take care of the bills and I clean everything every week yet no one ever mentions that. They give the kitchen a wipe once a month and think that gives them carte blanche to beat me with the one thing I do that she doesn't agree with.

The other guy also doesn't like me smoking I'll add and I also don't get on with him, but he's been here a year now and can't be that bothered about it.

My answer to her now is you can live with it or leave. I'm not bending over backwards for her any more.

I will add though that I've lived with over 20 people in my time at uni and here in London and got on perfectly fine with almost all of them. The girl she replaced is one of my best friends who also hated smoking when she was here but appreciated that it's better to have a clean smoker than a horrific non smoker.

 

[anksta]

To be fair if you're stinking the flat out with cigarette smoke then she's got a point. Yeah it does sound like she needs to calm things down too and not make noise at night etc... But if you're getting annoyed about it you've got no real position to argue from if you're still stinking the place out with your smoking.

The cleaning thing is standard housemate drama... everyone thinks they do more than everyone else... short of being really anal and drawing up a rota there isn't much you can do about that unless they literally do nothing at all cleaning wise...

I smoke in my room with the door closed only. I didn't smoke in the living room even when there were 2 people here who didn't mind me smoking at all, including another who did.

 

[anksta]

Da hell is "zone 2"?

When you next light up, go to her door, open it and slam it. Repeat until you've finished your fag. Show her who's boss.

London travel zones mate, concentric circles expanding out from the centre of London. We're on the cusp of zones 1 and 2 and pay rent that hasn't been increased in 6 years.

In short it's cheap as anything. I've been looking for a new flat for a while as I obviously don't want to live with these people any more and you can't find anywhere less than 700 that's anywhere near as big as this within about 3 miles of the centre.

And that's for a hole or to live with a couple or to stay somewhere you have to be out of on the weekends.

 

[anksta]

See that Balcony you cleared.... Go smoke out on it you filthy animal
AND SHUT THE ****ING DOOR BEHIND YOU.

This is all you need to do to.
Her side of the argument does not have a leg to stand on then.

It's the middle of winter, and this is a smoking flat.

I'm not even that bothered about the smoking, I told her I'd be quitting if she just put up with it for a bit.

She's going to put up with it for a bit whether or not she wants to have hysterics every night (you can tell that she didn't eat her veg when she was a kid as screaming was easier) because it's cheap, simple as that.

If we were paying 700 a month for a ground floor flat in Wimbledon she'd be gone tomorrow.

 

[anksta]

A bit lazy of you since you've already mentioned the flat has a balcony. You've still got a weak argument if you're carrying on with something that legitimately annoys her.

It has 2 balconies, and one that's covered.

I don't care though, I can't show them that it's not on leaving your pots and pans in the sink for over a week or not taking out the rotting food in the rubbish because I just end up doing it so I'm taking my stand with this.

What have I got to lose? She'll move out and I'll lose a dear dear friend? She'll move out and I'll throw a rock out of the window and hit 6 people who are ready to move in before it's landed.

I've mentioned all this to her by the way.

 

[anksta]

Two wrongs and all that.

Be the bigger man.

No. I know how petulant I seem posting here so far out of context and whatnot but I'm the bigger man in literally every other aspect. I let everything the both of them do, I can make a list if you want but it's not like it's interesting.

Smoking is an issue, I get that. But as I said in the first place, smoking does not a bad flatmate make and not smoking doesn't make you a good flatmate either.

I'd be more concerned about her hysteria (I can still hear her even now I'll add) if I hadn't heard her sound like her first born had just been thrown in a fire at what happened on Channel 4.

 

[anksta]

Sounds like it isn't a smoking flat. It sounds very unreasonable to expect to be able to do something like smoke inside a home shared with those who don't smoke. If you want to smoke, it would seem the two options are:

a) Smoke outside
b) Get your own place where you can decide what you want to do

Option a) would probably be the easiest.

It is a smoking flat, the guy that wrote the advert said it wasn't, not me.

Another note in the spirit of honesty though, I did write the ad that he moved in as a result of which did say 'no smokers' but that was at the request of the other girl as she didn't want 2 and as I said, he's been here over a year now so can't really have that much of a problem with it.

 

[anksta]

If your smoking in a flat I'm in when I am a non smoker and you refuse to stand outside for all of five minutes because it's " a bit chilly" then YES IT DOES MAKE YOU A BAD HOUSEMATE..

Wind ones neck in and smoke outside and do everyone a favour.

If you went into a smoker's house though, whether or not you were intending to move in would you ask them to smoke outside?

If I'd moved in here and I'd lied about being a smoker and they'd said there's no smoking it'd be one thing.

But that's not what's happened. She might live here now and even if she brought all her stuff in before realising that there was a smoker here, she would have realised within 2 minutes and therefore could have moved out again.

She has a choice remember, there are still some smoking houses left in this country you know.

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH US.

You lot are just a bunch of smokists.

 

[anksta]

She's responded to an advert, in writing, saying it's a non smoking flat. Sounds like it's become a non-smoking flat (Like 99% of other shared flats I'd imagine).



So thats two seperate adverts for flatmates listing it as a 'no smoking' flat then?

Not that I'm on her side, she sounds very unreasonable, but smoking inside a shared residential property like that sounds ultra-out-of-order too.

2 separate ads a year apart I'll add.

I asked her not to slam doors, not to become a dream flatmate (which I wouldn't be far off of if I wasn't such a heathen) and in exchange I would wind down my smoking as I quit.

She then proceeded not only to carry on slamming doors (I'm not talking about just the front door when she leaves in the morning either I mean every door every time until around 2am most nights) but also developed several new very annoying habits in less than a week.

I would be willing to deal with all of that and it's not like limiting people you live with to around 7 hours of disrupted sleep a night is good for your health too.

She could have also accepted my offering to wrap it up in line with the quitting guide I was following, stopped slamming doors with an aim to gradually reduce her other problems and happy days.

But she didn't want to do that so the deal was off. She then came banging on my door at 10.30pm on a Tuesday night to shout at me when she was the one that had been out all night revving herself up because she 'doesn't like confrontation'.

I'll carry on smoking out of spite just to get rid of her at this rate.

 

[anksta]

Oh there is something wrong with you, your lungs are full of ****
I prefer mine to be full of air. (usually hot air but hey )


Well actually at the price of your place I don't really think she does have a choice or she would have moved wouldn't she.

You are just being "stubborn and immature" < Your words

I'm just seeing if I can out immature her.

if its a smokers house report her to the landlord? surely the other flatmate would back you up? what is his input on all of this?

His input is to stay in his room with the door closed and not weigh in at all. He doesn't like the smoking either and we aren't exactly friends, he has the personality of a warped floorboard.

The landlord would probably side with me as he only ever take to me about any issues with the flat even if someone else has called him but getting him involved is the equivalent of telling teacher so I won't go there, she has I might add.

Even if you did manage to quit smoking within that week I doubt she would have appreciated it enough to quit her bad habits anyway judging from what you've posted. She sounds like an out of control drama queen that can't be reasoned with as demonstrated by your effort to quit but her continuation of her door slamming and the like.

Exactly. The fact she didn't even attempt to, once, coupled with how quick she blew up at me not holding up the deal either just goes to show she had zero intention of doing anything but getting her own way.

I'll add that my stubborn approach might not be the most graceful, or even practical, but the rubbish is by the door now and the doors have stopped slamming now shes started to calm down.

Although her phone is ringing now so she'll probably get herself all lathered up again.

I had to usher her out of my room before and she had that look in her eyes that only women can have,daring me to lay a finger on her.

I'd never do that I might add I've never even hit a dude.

 

[anksta]

See my post about urine discs in the other thread.

I've lived with ****ers like that before, real lazy ****ers who grew up never lifting a finger, you've got to break their spirit then retrain them. Negotiations don't work - you need to fix the mess their parents left when they raised lazy children incapable of running a household.

Aside from that, I mean as a smoker I'm considerate in that I will ask "Do you mind if I smoke in here?" when I'm in the car or whatever. And while I'd hope all smokers would do just that I'm not going to tell you how to live your life.

This feels very much like what's happened. The speed at which she goes from being "I'm being the calm adult one here" to literally screaming the flat down and hyperventilating suggests she's not exactly prone to calm debate.

I'm not even bothered about the smoking and won't be doing it today because I'm ill but I'm going to continue telling her I am until she realises that throwing her toys out of the pram and getting herself worked up isn't going to fly with me.

 

[anksta]

I've just had a look at the tenancy agreement which was signed (but never returned to the landlord) in around September 2012.

There is no mention of smoking anywhere, the closest thing is 'it is the tenants' obligation to ensure the flat is properly ventilated'.

The new girl obviously hasn't signed this and has most likely never seen it but I shall be pointing it out in due course.

We never even returned it to the landlord and he never asked for it so I'm not sure how much weight it holds but still, it's better than it saying definitely no smoking.

The landlord isn't the most thorough type, he's a nice enough guy but the reason the flat is so cheap is that he was content in allowing the old flatmates to just replace tenants themselves without even telling him up until him making us sign this agreement and that seems to have lacked any follow up as he's never asked us for it again.

 

[anksta]

Who cares about an update?

Here's one anyway.

Been quiet all day and then just at the end of the night I thought I'd go and apologise to the other flatmate for being involved in a row that must have woken him/kept him up for the past 2 nights.

All I wanted to say was 'sorry for the row' but then he asked what was going on and why it was so hostile (even though he definitely knows) I said look I'm not trying to get you on side or anything.

Cue the girl coming out (didn't even know she was in, must have been sitting in there with her light off) and standing there with her arms folded and then proceeding to stand right outside my door while she banged on about her reasons, mentioning "if you're not willing to back me up" at least 3 times in a horrifically unsubtle way.

I heard him say "I'm not getting involved" at least twice and "I need to go to bed now" about 5 minutes before she'd eventually leave him alone.

She said she'd be leaving if I didn't stop which I really don't care about but it's funny how quick she was willing to whip that out as a threat (like it's so hard to find flatmates in London) before I told her to go ahead now she's dead hesitant to say it because she knows that as much as the smoking bothers her, the cost and location of the flat is a much more preferable situation.

In her room again now on the phone full blast, probably crying.

 

[anksta]

The only person who doesn't sound like a passive-aggressive asshat in this situation is the other flatmate. I bet he's hoping you both move out.

Probably, but he's got his issues too. He's coming out shining in this thread/situation I'll admit but he's proper weird.

 

[anksta]

I've decided my new negotiating position will be to offer to stop smoking, clean up more and generally be a nicer flatmate.

When she moves out.