Folding at home points: What should be done?

[FreeStream]

As im sitting here, my GPU is doing 550ppd and I have two WUs on the C2d doing 500PPD each.

However, most of the time its doing 200PPD, which is hardly anything above my X2 which is 50-75% slower.

Same with my GPU, its 50-60-70 times more powerful than any CPU yet we will get hardly any points in comparison.

Rich had a good idea about saying 1 point = 1 GFlop.

I agree with that, becuase they have stats for how many flops each client is outputting, so use it for points.

Saying that people without GPUs will be left out, well tough. Technology has moved on. Some bloke with a 2ghz Celeron going to compain because some guy is getting 16x more points from a 4ghz Kentsfeild.

Points isn't the main point of running F@H, but there is competition to it.

Points would be using Flops something along like this:
1GigaFlops is 1 BILLION floating operations per second.

Lets say a X1900XTX @ 700/800 is 100 GFlops, 100 billion ops per second.
Over a minute thats 6000 Billion Operations. 360,000 Billion over 1 hour. If one GFlop = 1 point, then a X1900XTX would be getting 360 points an hour. 8640000 Billion ops a day, 8640 points a day. Seesh LOL

Now, a 2.8ghz Core 2 Duo. I think its about 2GFlops, 2 billion ops per second. 120 Billion over 1 minute, or 7200 Billion per hour. So thats 7.2 points an hour.
172800 Billion ops a day. 172.8 points a day. Per core.

Lastly, a 2Ghz P4/867Mhz G4 is about .5GFlops. 500 million ops per second. 30 Billion ops per min, 1800 Flops an hour, 43200 Billion ops a day, or 43.2 points.

In my mind, thats fair. Because the power its using = points.

What do you think?

 

[FreeStream]

Stop quoting me on that I wasn't being serious

No dude, its a good idea, you get credit for it

 

[FreeStream]

it should be based on time spent
as people with slower PCs that spend more time on the project are contributing more effort (and leccy bills) to the project.

But they arn't doing anywhere near the same amount of work. To do the same amount of work they have to use more power.

You cant allow for eqaul points between new and old tech, because its just not fair. Because if we have a 1k PC going spare 90% of the time = a 100 quid PC then how we going to feel?

EDIT: I can buy about 20 P3 Pcs for what I paid for my C2D, yet the C2D will output them all. So people will buy cheap slow PCs to get more points..

 

[FreeStream]

KE1HA pretty much hit the nail on the head. There is no way Stanford could come up with a points system that would make everybody happy. As it is the current system is fine. GPU clients get a 4x bonus and that is said to increase in the future.

People seem to lose sight of the fact that Folding is for the science, not how fast you can stomp slackers! Yes I know the competition and the points is the incentive to fold, but a lot of people are grubbing for more and more points for their part in folding.

One argument I saw here the other night was along the lines of people using more and more energy running CPU and GPU clients. This is a prime example of people forgetting a major aspect of folding - it is 100% voluntary. Some people seem to think you HAVE to fold using the GPU and CPU client.

I think the current system of points is absolutely perfect given the complexity of it all. As has been said - faster systems get more points, slower systems get less. It is brilliant that people go to great lengths to get faster systems just for folding, but in the end 90% of people folding probably have just one machine that is likely to be of average speed. If Stanford made the GPU WUs get something silly like 6000PPD you would have a few hundred or few thousand people in a league of their own, nobody without an X1900 could compete.

SiriusB

True, but then why should GPU users be bogged down to a limit PPD because some people can't compete. again this situation of a 2Ghz P4 Vs. a 4Ghz Kentsfield, is that not fair?

It has to be a scaleable points system, new tech gets more points because its more powerful and in some cases uses less power.

Or we could abolish the points system all together and just see how many workunits someone can produce instead

Edit: Added a 0 to correct X1900XTX scores, well, I'd be happy with that LMFAO!

 

[FreeStream]

Personally I feel the points awarded for Gpu folding should be increased.
My reasons for this are as follows:

Folding using the Gpu is far less user friendly as it slows down the GUI.
Cpu folding atleast allows the donator to use thier pc whilst the client is running. A fast Cpu or a dual Cpu is easily capable of running a game at the same time, memory permitting.
So basically the donator is giving full resources to Stanford whilst the pc is folding.

Folding using the Gpu will work out to be more energy efficent as long as the points atleast remain the same.
If the points were increased (after all the X1900XT is a top end card) I think it would encourage donators who are interested in points to upgrade thier pcs.
If donators did upgrade thier pcs they would save money in the long run by having more energy efficent hardware.
Donators who are folding using older hardware are already at a dissadvantage compared to the X2s, Opterons and Conroes.
Many donators using older hardware are happy that they are contributing to Stanfords cause and may not necessarily be concerned with points.
I feel these donators would not be interested in upgrading thier pcs apart from the energy efficently angle.

I feel Stanford should consult with the top people of the top teams regarding a fair points system for Gpu folding.
It need not take long for this consultaion to take place as Im sure along with myself you would rather have the scientist doing science than sorting out a points system.
If each team set a date for all its members to raise thier point of view and then the top people from each team presented the results to Stanford.
A poll on the fairness of the points awarded to Gpu folding would probably be
a good place to start.

Personally I feel this is a great opportunity for Stanford to encourage more energy efficent folding.

Tom

Yep, but they can't really do that either because how do you calculate the power use of every PC out there?

Mines different to every other config like mine, voltages, amps, watts all different.

The only continuous thing between us all is the Flops rating the software uses. People will buy better hardware which folds more with less power.

So there we go:
Points system using Flops = less powerful hardware being replaced by powerful, more efficent PCs..

Edit: I agree about loosing your whole PC because the GPU client stops you from doing anything 3D and slows down the GUI. I actually don't mind because the 2D speeds are still ok.