Football - John Terry's red card fiasco...

[NeilF]

So he man handles a player to the ground. The ref gives him a red card as he was possibly the last man between the goal.

Now the tackle was cynical, and by the England captain no less... But it's now been rescinded!

So it's OK to foul other players on purpose! Great example for young players! And a great advert for the 'professional game'!

The risk of a red card might just have made these professional players play a bit more professionally

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/sep/16/chelsea.premierleague?gusrc=rss&feed=football

 

[NeilF]

So we have a Sport Arena for a reason...

That aside the ref sent him off for serious foul play, look at the laws of the game, and that never fits serious foul play.

TBH, a calculated foul is pretty serious IMHO... Makes a mockery of the game. If it risks upsetting the balance of a game (ie: a scoring chance which this may have been) that risks a red card for me...

Honestly, the England Captain behaving this way in a PROFESSIONAL sport He was playing rugby for a second there!

 

[NeilF]

What team do you support?

I don't really... I enjoy watching football though...

 

[NeilF]

I said it in the weekend football thread but repost here as it is more relevant.

This clearly sets a precedent now! It practically send a message out saying that:- you can rugby tackle players and not get a card.

The game is already a joke at times with PROFESSIONAL players, a) throwing themselves over trying to get free kicks or get other players sent of, or, b) pretending to be hit to get players sent off.

Now we have rugby tackles officially endorsed!

 

[NeilF]

If Man United where top with winning every game I doubt he would be bothered but "straws" and "clutching" come to mind.

It's interesting... Video evidence, post match can show a player cheating by throwing themselves over, or overreacting in such a way it affects the score... And nothing done...

Here we have video evidence being used which confirms a player has commited a foul, on purpose, for no other reason than to affect the outcome of a game, and they remove his penalisation?

Joke!

The Captain of England no less! What a great role model, cheat if you can, cheat if you need to... Nice! Great example from a true PROFESSIONAL!

 

[NeilF]

They removed the red card because it was issued for the wrong offence which is only fair really, get over it.

Only fair?? Net effect is a rugby tackle to stop the other team from possibly scoring has be dealt with by giving him a nice little pat on the back... It makes a mockery of professional sport to be honest!

Only in football do we see 'professionals' acting so unprofessionally, and it all me accepted as part of 'the beautiful game'... Why? Because people just don't care about professional behaviour and simply suggest 'get over it'... How have 'professional fouls' become so acceptable? It's a contradiction in terms!

And shame on you for being so shallow you're only more infavour of this decision simply because you support the team...?

 

[NeilF]

Do you not understand why the red card was rescinded or are you just trolling for the sake of it?

I understand we're talking about a professional sport, where a professional player wrestled another player to the ground, instead of playing the sport as the rules dictated. And the whole matter being treated as 'it's all OK'...

I guess I'm talking about the bigger picture of what a farce football is at times. And this just highlights it...

Here we have a major name, the captain of England, and everyone is patting him on the back for actual breaking the rules... And doing their utmost to ensure he doesn't suffer in anyway for doing so... Seems very odd...

If he hadn't broken the rules on purpose - and just played fair - then there would be no issue! God forbid anyone suggest that! It's getting the stage (or past it) where it's just not worth playing fair, as there's too much to be gained by cheating at little/no cost... And this is just termed a 'professional foul' and accepted for some reason...

 

[NeilF]

That's a no then.

Of course we both know it's a yes, of course I understand why the FA rescinded it, but you choose to ignore my point of the bigger picture... Why is that?

If he'd just played by the rules - instead of cheating on purpose - we wouldn't be having this discussion. But for some reason cheating on purpose is deemed absolutely OK by the FA and fans alike it seems? Why's that?

Do you not see it as the slightest bit odd? In a sport played by the very best professionals? They act in such an unprofessional manner, and it's OK/accepted?

Why did he wrestle the other player to the ground? Because he suspected he could get away with it, and improve the position of his team by doing so. Guess what, it seems it's absolutely OK to do that! Why is it OK?

Sportsman
1. a man who engages in sports, esp. in some open-air sport, as hunting, fishing, racing, etc.
2. a person who exhibits qualities especially esteemed in those who engage in sports, as fairness, courtesy, good temper, etc.

 

[NeilF]

Nobody has accpeted what he done as being OK but it was not worthy of a red card so the FA done the right thing to rescind it.

As I've said before, my point isn't aimed specifically at the Terry incident, but I guess more at the ridiculous way football seems to be going, which this case seems to almost highlight.

Let me ask you this... If such actions - purposely wrestling another player to the ground to better your own situation - risked a yellow or red card, do you think it would:-
a) make players foul on purpose more?
b) make players foul on purpose less?

Terry considered his options and went for the foul fully expecting to get away with it... and guess what he has... and guess what everyone seems happy with it?

Why is it OK to cynically wrestle another player to the ground? Where in the rules does it permit this? It's a completely unsporting act that should be utterly frowned upon, yes for some reason in professional football (the best of the best) it's embrased as part of the game?

Something needs to be done because when fouls are just accepted parts of the game and given a nice clean term such as 'professional foul' there's something wrong with the sport...

What next, 'professional ramming' in F1? Acceptable? 'Professional kicking' in boxing? Acceptable? Why is wrestling a player to the ground OK in football?

 

[NeilF]

And diving does, its part and parcel of the game and cheats teams out of points every week but it happens, the tackle was crazy but no different to a player stopping the ball going in the net with his hand, apart from the fact the striker had to run half of the pitch beat a keeper and 2 defenders closing him down.

...and for some reason it's all just accepted as 'part of the game'. These are 'professionals' paid ridiculous amounts of money because they are supposedly the best of the best... Yet they have so much respect for their sport and each other that they dive, pretend, and generally just cheat...

...and for some reason this is all just accepted... Why?

I know my point is somewhat lost on this specific case, it's more the bigger picture. Terry took his chances, commit a foul on purpose, and his gamble lost (good!) so he got a red card... But the FA it seems, in all their great wisdom, decide there is nothing wrong infact with cheating... They have basically endorsed this behaviour...

 

[NeilF]

It's unfortunate that the referee chose the wrong reason for the sending off and that means that on a technicality the red card must be rescinded (the correct decision) but it is even more unfortunate that there is no mechanism in the rules to reduce a red card to a yellow on appeal because the challenge did at least merit that.

Looking for positives: the situation does now highlight this rather gaping flaw in the rules so hopefully it will be addressed although I'm not exactly holding my breath.

How often are players sent off for another player pretending to be fouled? How often do players get away with a foul because the ref doesn't see it? How often are goals incorrectly given/not-given because an offside has/hasn't been seen? And how often are these decisions rescinded? Basically never...

But for some reason, Terry has been smiled upon by the FA even though he cheated.

To be frank, we should all be a bit embarressed the captain of England cheats, but for some reason we just accept it, and the FA even endorse it.

 

[NeilF]

The FA said the other day that they know they need look at their system, especially after they announced that they are powerless to do anything further about Guthrie's challenge the other day which by the way is a far more serious miscarriage of justice than the Terry incident.

Absolutely... It seems what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch (unless your name is Terry). Players should be made accountabe after games from video evidence:-
- Pretend to be his to get another play send of? Ban them for a game.
- Dive to gain a free kick/penatly? Ban them for a game.

At the moment all this cheatin on purpose makes football look a bit of a joke at times... These are 'professional sportsmen' and should be expected to behave as such.

 

[NeilF]

Does fouling now = cheating?

If you're doing it on purpose what else can it be? You are doing it to better you own position or team's position by performing an act outside the rules?

 

[NeilF]

Should we second-guess all referees decisions? Sometimes life is unfair, that's just one of those things. While I'd agree that video evidence could and should be used I'd prefer to see a system akin to rugby where in the case of doubt they refer to a specific video referee which allows the referee to make a quick decision and right any wrongs that day, it might take a few minutes more but it seems an acceptable trade off to me.

I think you're spot on. The argument that seems to come back about this is how do the lower leagues manages it. Well how do the lower rugby leagues manage it? They just don't bother at the lower levels which is absolutely fine.

 

[NeilF]

NeilFawcett, i dont think ive ever seen anyone write so much drivel in one thread.

And trolls finally find the thread

Oh well.. Troll away...

 

[NeilF]

Here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y9xosuNTQI

LOL!

 

[NeilF]

Even when it's so very obviously the wrong decision? There's backing the refs, and then there's doing nothing while the ref gets the decision disastrously wrong not just during the game, but also after when he has the benefit of a replay.

Any ref giving a straight red for that challenge is not applying the rules correctly, I don't expect them to be given a pat on the back for their efforts.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but if you bring down a player, and there's no team mates between you and the goal keeper it's an automatic red card isn't it? Terry was very close to doing this wasn't he...?

And once again, let's remember Terry cheated by cynically bringing down a player because he was about to pass him, and this was of enough concern to Terry that his broke the rules and wrestled him to the ground... If he suffered with a yellow card, red card, or no TV for the night, this sort of 'game play' makes a bit of a mockery of the game... And it won't stop until it's properly punished, rather than ignoring it...

 

[NeilF]

What about a tug on a shirt? Should that be a clear red card because that's going for the man rather than the ball to stop him?

I (personally) an in no way suggesting this merits a red card. Or that Terry's wrestling does... But we seem to be in the odd position in football (now) where it's all an expected part of the game for professional players to cheat their way through games:-
1) Wrestling players to the ground?
2) Diving in order to received free kicks?
3) Diving in order to try and get other players cards, or sent off?
4) Pretending to be hit to get players cards, or sent off?
5) Over reacting to tackles to get players cards, or sent off?

'Professional foul', 'taking one for the team', they're all just nice clean terms for 'cheating'. And unfortunately until something is done, football continues to be a bit of a farce at times...

What should be done? I don't pretend to be an expert, but if rugby can use video footage and off pitch referees to better judge the game, why not football with all its aditional money. And more importantly harsher outcomes for 'cheating'.

 

[NeilF]

It was 3-1 and im not aware about that rule where you can't rescind a red card if it's worth a yellow.




By the letter of the law, what Terry done was not worthy or a red card. Im struggling to see how anybody can argue with that.

Try reading the thread?

Basically we have a professionaly footballer - the England Captain - who is willing, infront of everyone, no questions asked, to cheat, instead of just playing the game fairly. He was beaten by the opponent, and weighed up his options and cynically decided just to cheat and wrestle the player to the ground, suspecting he would at worst get a yellow card, at best nothing... What does that say about the sport, the attitude of the sportsman playing, and the fact that it's called a 'professional foul' - two words that should never sit next to each other.

Deserving of a red card, yellow card, or two hours detention? The fact is we have a sport where it has become common place for players to dive, act, and wrestle each other to the ground, How long until teams start 'diving lessons' for the their players, if infact they haven't already? It's getting that daft!

In my book he took a gamble on bringing the player down on purpose (known as cheating) and it back fired on him resulting in a red card. Shame this doesn't happen a bit more. I suspect the antics would reduce a bit...