Former Dragons' Den star Doug Richard 'paid a 13-year-old schoolgirl hundreds of pounds for sex'

[dowie]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Richard-paid-13-year-old-schoolgirl-sex.html

A businessman who once appeared on Dragons' Den paid a 13-year-old girl hundreds of pounds for sex after meeting her on a 'sugar daddy' website, a court heard today.
Doug Richard, 57, allegedly arranged for the girl and a 15-year-old friend to join him at a £149-a-night apartment in central London.
The Californian admits sexual activity did occur with the child, but claims it was consensual and he believed she was at least 16 at the time.

erm... if you're paying for it then surely you'd best make sure she's at least 18.... and if in doubt perhaps check ID - tis not like he picked her up in a nightclub, he had to pay for this girl and her friend to get on a train to come and meet him FFS... (since she obviously doesn't drive!)


What do you think - was he really just naive and thought they were a couple of teenagers who were at least 16 (v.dodgy territory but not necessarily illegal per say)? Or is he a full on nonce many other celebs and people in power are turning out the be these days?

 

[dowie]

As we don't have all the facts are we going to run an OcUK Nonce trial in parallel with the one going on in the Old Bailey?

Of course!

Why do you need all the facts? The question isn't whether he's guilty or not guilty beyond reasonable doubt but asking for opinions on how plausible it is that someone like him didn't realise the girls were under age and/or whether he should have been more careful.

 

[dowie]

Is the Dragon's Den bit relevant other than being a way for the Daily Heil to link it to the BBC somehow?

Aside from being the reason why he is famous?

 

[dowie]

Daily Mail headline followed by Daily Mail link without the Daily Mail headline Have you out-Daily Mailed the Daily Mail or will writing this give everyone cancer?

I like to try... 'Nonce's Den' seemed appropriate

 

[dowie]

Damn, some pesky Mod has changed the thread title....

#noncegate

 

[dowie]

Does the Daily Fail mention the rental cost of the apartment as they couldn't find out how much his house is worth?

Quite possibly, the price of someone's apartment or house usually is an important component to a Daily Fail story.

 

[dowie]

When does paying for sex become paying for sex?

Paying for the train fare? Paying for dinner? Buying a nice dress for them? Buying off their wish list on Amazon? Or just handing over cash with the explicit agreement that it is for sex?

It's the same question that has to be raised when the suggestion of making buying sex illegal comes up. Where is the line?

when you're clearly buying sex... that is the line in countries like the US where paying for sex is illegal

i.e. in undercover stings the policewoman dressed as a hooker has to make sure you've agreed to pay for sex else your sleazy Vegas defence lawyer could well get your charges dropped

also if you pick up a girl at the side of a road and drive to a parking lot you're not in much position to argue you were only paying her for her time when caught with your trousers down... ditto to being busted in a known brothel

anyway - this is slightly off topic - paying for sex isn't illegal in the UK, the issue here is that they're underage

 

[dowie]

I initially read it as him just paying their train fare. There seems to be other random amounts as well, to both girls.

AFAIK paying for sex isn't illegal

what matters is that they are underage

 

[dowie]

Obviously that matters, but it would be a short thread if it didn't branch out a bit as I already said.

There is a movement trying to make paying for sex in this country illegal.

I think that is a bit off topic, he basically was paying for sex either way and that in itself isn't illegal. Whether it would in theory be illegal if we did have such laws or not is all rather hypothetical but I guess if he's given extra money in return for some act then presumably he would have difficulty defending the idea that he was just paying for their time.

It is the idea that he claimed he didn't know they were underage that makes me a bit skeptical - if he is genuine then he might well not be guilty of anything, but unless this girl does look significantly older than she is then this is rather dubious. I'd also assume the site is for people 18 and over only, on the one hand maybe that provides a (rather weak) defence, on the other hand he should have expected them to look 18or over really not just 16 or over.

 

[dowie]

The article suggests both girls were given (the same amount of) money, so that would suggest he didn't pay for sex in the definitions given above. It wouldn't be as good a story if the title didn't say he did though would it.

but paying for sex isn't illegal so it is all rather irrelevant, I'm not quite sure why you want to get side tracked over some hypothetical scenario that doesn't actually apply here

 

[dowie]

Because it's obviously being used in the thread (and newspaper) title for a reason. It may not be illegal here (yet) but it certainly has more connotations than legality for the minds of most people that read it.

that doesn't have much to do with the legality of it - famous person paying for sex with someone above 18 is still news for tabloids even when perfectly legal

you could say it is related to the morality of it... but really it is just something that makes the story/gossip a bit saucier

 

[dowie]

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it but this is a foreigner/immigrant we're talking about here too!

 

[dowie]

But the point was, acoreing to your definition of "paying for sex" it doesn't look like he actually did. it was certainly used to make the story saucier, it is the daily mail after all, fact and impartial reporting isn't particularly important.

Anyway, enough of that.

He quite clearly paid for sex(in the same way as anyone paying for an escort's 'time' has), whether he'd be convicted if paying for sex was illegal is another matter... we don't know for sure and I've answered that twice already. I'll point out again that it isn't illegal and I'm still not sure why you keep banging on about it?

 

[dowie]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but our age of consent laws make it illegal (for a Brit) to go to another country (with lower consenting age) to have sex there.

So regardless, if you're British the minimum age is 16+... worldwide.

Haven't there been prosecutions of Brits who go abroad for these purposes? I'm sure there have.

e: confirmed:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ts-face-UK-prosecution-over-abuse-abroad.html

e2: The US has the same law.

Now that is interesting, maybe something his UK lawyers haven't considered. If he believed they were at least 16 (rather than 18) - could he potentially be in trouble under US law where 18 is usually the limit?

 

[dowie]

So any Brit who goes to America and buys a gun is breaking the law? Any Brit who drives on an Autobahn over 70 mph is breaking the law? Any Brit who sets up a bar in Spain where the drinking age is 16 and sells beer to 17 year olds is breaking the law?

nah - AFAIK this was specific legislation introduced so that British nonces going to the far east could still be prosecuted over here

 

[dowie]

not surprising he got let off... 'beyond reasonable doubt' after all

while we can say hang on it must have been a bit obvious these girls were rather dubious, especially if one of them was 13! He has got a legitimate defence in that the site is for people over 18 and he believed they were at least 16... and they've not said anything to the contrary.

 

[dowie]

I remember being approached by a very flirty 16 year old in Budapest it was obvious she was way too young despite being in a bar - it just felt a bit uncomfortable, she was out with a group of equally young friends, was clearly coming onto me - if I was 16,17,18 I'd have been v.keen but it just felt a bit wrong to even have her chatting/flirting in front of me, ended up moving on to another bar and saying goodbye to that group. I'd really struggle to believe that this Dragon's Den guy didn't realise there was something dubious when those two girls turned up.