From Student to Software Engineer

  • Thread starter Thread starter Garee
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Garee

Garee

I am currently starting the second year of my Computing Science/Software Engineering degree and I was wondering if anyone currently employed in the industry has any advice for students on how to maximise the chance of getting a good foothold in the profession.

I have read that a portfolio is vital and a shiny new degree will get you next to nowhere unless you have proof of your experience and skills. Is this true?

Any help is much appreciated, thanks!
 
Yup most employers won't touch you without experience really.

Best idea is to do a software engineering placement as part of your degree. If that's not an option try and get involved in things which may require stuff to be coded. I was involved in university radio and i wrote several apps for the studio - talkback, SMS control and LCD text display control.

I've also had a couple of personal projects, one of which is my CarPC front end software.

Otherwise after you leave uni you're best looking at Software Engineering graduate schemes.
 
Just be prepared to work for cheap when you get out of uni and you will rack up the experience in no time. You might start off <20k for a 6 months but you can expect 35k+ in 2 to 3 years if you are good. After 3-4 years you could look at contracting.
 
There are (or at least were 4 years ago) plenty of student placements, where all (except London) will be less than £20k... the plus side is experience won't be an issue as they'll expect you to be straight out of uni.

Again, I'll be surprised if you're on £35k in 2 or 3 years (except London). The pay rises are good, but not £5k+ a year. You'll have to be prepared to move from company to company to get the best rises.
 
Goksly said:
There are (or at least were 4 years ago) plenty of student placements, where all (except London) will be less than £20k... the plus side is experience won't be an issue as they'll expect you to be straight out of uni.

Again, I'll be surprised if you're on £35k in 2 or 3 years (except London). The pay rises are good, but not £5k+ a year. You'll have to be prepared to move from company to company to get the best rises.
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I am referring to London rates here and yes it will involve moving around. My first role as a graduate with little commercial experience was on £37k. I was later told this was based on general enthusiasm, knowledge and academic credentials rather than any kind of experience.
 
sparkey196 said:
I was later told this was based on general enthusiasm, knowledge and academic credentials rather than any kind of experience.
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So are comparies looking for overall knowledge of SE and your coding skills rather than previous experience?
 
For junior/graduate level IT roles the most important things employers look for are good A levels, a good comp sci degree (from a good university) and eagerness to learn.

You are at university so for now just concentrate on getting at least a 2.1, participate in societies and enjoy yourself. Don't get hung up on doing bits of BS coding in your spare time which will be of no significance to future employers. You can only get really high quality commercial experience in a full time job working with real professionals imo.

I commend you for taking the time to ask these questions and plan your future. I'm currently trying to manoeuvre myself from the tech to the business side of the house and I really wish I had thought about this back when I was at university. For example looking back, I should have found a proper graduate scheme with structured career progression even if it meant half the pay. I have one friend that started on 25k and 3 years later she is heading up a team in New York.. the company even flies her boyfriend out once a month to see her.
 
sparkey196 said:
Don't get hung up on doing bits of BS coding in your spare time which will be of no significance to future employers.
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Gotta say that sounds pretty counter intuitive. I found that students during my degree who did hobby projects and applied their skills outside of whatever exercises they were given did better. If you're doing (and enjoying) these kind of hobby projects on your own steam and applying the material that you have learnt in class you're going to end up with more practice and improve your skills.

Practice WILL make you a better programmer which should in turn hopefully shine through to a future employer that you actually know what you are doing and are competent at the level that you put yourself forward as.

Edit: Sorry just to add also as a direct comment to sparkey - you claimed that your employer employed you because of "general enthusiasm"; surely any non-academic projects that you have participated in show directly that you have (and are examples of) enthusiasm for your given subject outside of what is just work.
 
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What i mean is don't go around building websites for your aunt's dog walking company and expect it to be considered serious work experience. Just concentrate on your degree for now and then look at finding a good junior/graduate role.

Having hobby projects is great as it shows you have a genuine interest, having contributing to community projects is particularly good. Also I would recommend documenting your work as a blog. It is one thing saying you built a website using facebook connect, it is another to say "look here is my github username, check out my commit history on the facebook php-sdk".
 
sparkey196 said:
For junior/graduate level IT roles the most important things employers look for are good A levels, a good comp sci degree (from a good university) and eagerness to learn.
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Not exactly.

I have 0 A Levels but im at Uni doing AI & Robtics.

I have been told that if i get a 2.1 or better i will have a very good chance of getting a job within the first 6 months of graduating.

Then again i do have a GNVQ and a B-tec :/
 
I left uni about 2 years ago now and barely passed my degree due to not turning up for 3 years. I hated the course as it was so much theory but one thing I did notice was that the best programmers were the ones that didnt usually get the best grades.

Graduate positions are aimed at taking someone who has demonstrated a capacity to learn rather than being able to actually do a job. They will then train the person to do a specific job at the company.

If you wish to get a position in a smaller company or a non graduate position then most couldnt care less whether you have a degree or not in my limited experience.

All of the employers I have been approached by only wanted to see my work and never asked about a degree.

If you are capable of programming and have any talent at it then you shouldnt find it too tricky to find a job. Since I quit my last job I could have gone to about 20 interview based on the emails and calls I got after posting my cv online.

Thats in the mecca for the web that is norwich.
 
I managed to secure a software engineer job about 2/3rds of the way through my final year so I can share my experience and a few tips.

About February time in my final year (right after my exams) I began applying for jobs by setting up a profile on cwjobs.co.uk. The morning I set it up I received several calls and by the end of the week I had secured an interview. I think it will benefit you to apply well before you graduate so as to avoid the rush of applications when everyone graduates which will hopefully mean less competition for you.

I managed to secure the job the day after my interview which was a huge relief as I could focus on my degree and not worry about what to do afterwards.

When I started, I spoke to the engineers who did the interviews and told me about how difficult it was to get someone of a decent standard. From what I've been told from multiple respectable sources that there are lots of people looking for IT jobs but a vast majority of applicants either lack the skills needed for the job entirely or don't have a balanced set of skills (technical and non-technical). I was told that they interviewed lots of people who had experience but in the end they hired a recent graduate (who had a few months work experience prior to joining) and me - a completely fresh graduate with little to no commerical experience. They said they weren't intending to hire graduates and I am the first graduate they have hired because the quality of the applicants were just not that good.

So basically, you don't need to have commercial experience to get a decent software engineering job providing you can show you are bright, enthusiastic, and eager to learn. Or maybe I was just lucky.

A few tips:
  • Apply well before you graduate. Try cwjobs.co.uk, I had lots of interest on there
  • Do as many relevant extra-curricular things as possible to make your CV stand out. For example I did a research internship as well as helping out new computing students in the years below me.
  • If you have achievements, list them on your CV. For example I listed how our group project in 2nd year got us into an IBM competition.
  • Perhaps list some of your hobbies on your CV. For example I had some stuff about how I build and overclock my own computers which my manager was very interested about when he interviewed me. Sometimes your employer wants to know you are a well-balanced individual.
  • Make sure you do lots of preparation for any interviews you have. Try and figure out what questions typically get asked in an interview and formulate an answer on paper.

In case you ask I started on £24K and I am now on £28K after one year which isn't too bad for a starting salary. My flatmate (and coursemate) started on 18K and moved up to 20K, and another flatmate started on 30K - although he works at Microsoft...

Sorry if I've waffled a bit, I'm quite a lightweight with this Disaronno :p
 
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