Front squat advantages/disadvantages over back squat?

Teknobry · 7 Aug 2008 at 15:22

Despite a lot of reading both on here and other websites, I find it very difficult to get the back squat right. I think mostly due to lack of flexibility, when i go ATG I find my back rounds as I get low, and I get aches in my knees afterwards (always had dodgy knee's though)

Started doing front squats, and not only did I find the form much more 'natural' to do, I was able to lift less yet get a much harsher workout for my legs (john wayne walking when leaving the gym

) plus I found I had a lot less knee pain from them.

Unless there is any major reason, I think I'm going to abandon back squats completely and stick to front squats, although I've never seen another person in the gym doing them, lol.

Morba · 7 Aug 2008 at 15:24

front squats rock. they put more emphasis on the quads which is a good thing. as long as you are making up for the lack of ham, glute and lower back work you will be more than ok not doing back squats.

however, it sounds most likely a flexibility issue, its well worth trying to get more flexible, even if you still plan to neve do back squats again :]

Freefaller · 7 Aug 2008 at 15:28

As morba says, if you included some good hamstring exercises like SLDLs, and maybe some good mornings... If you can deal with lunges (which you may not if you have dodgy knees) they would certainly help too.

I mix it up personally, I do 1 week fronts, 1 week back squats. To do really heavy squats (i.e. 150+) I have to do back.

marl · 7 Aug 2008 at 22:30

Maybe you should try improving your flexibility and start squatting with a lighter weight to get the technique right.

I remember doing front squats years ago when i trained, but i always felt squats were a more complete exercise.

Freefaller · 8 Aug 2008 at 07:18

Speaking of front/rear squats, I can shift considerably more weight doing back squats than front squats - but I mean ATG squats here not just below parallel. Sissy squats I could do probably close to the same weight, but on front squats 90-100kg is about all I can manage for reps - doesn't half hurt the shoulders either!

I know I know... pussy!

Teknobry · 8 Aug 2008 at 14:00

marl said:
Maybe you should try improving your flexibility and start squatting with a lighter weight to get the technique right.

I remember doing front squats years ago when i trained, but i always felt squats were a more complete exercise.

Have recently swapped deadlifts for SLDL's (are RDL's basically the same, i can't see much difference between the two?) so trying to improve hamstring flexibility.
I've tried squatting just the bar, but it doesn't seem to help with my lack of flexibility.
GM's are something I've not tried yet, I've been doing the same routine for about 7 weeks now, I'll do one more week of it then mix it up and include GM's in.

Morba · 8 Aug 2008 at 14:27

You have replaced a lower back exercise for a Ham one?
What are you doing for lower back now?

Teknobry · 8 Aug 2008 at 18:26

Morba said:
You have replaced a lower back exercise for a Ham one?
What are you doing for lower back now?

Do SLDL's not affect the lower back? As mine aches after doing them

This was today's routine:

Front squats 3x8
Deadlift (SLDL) 3x8
Pendlay row 3x8
Dumbell curl (ezbar) 2x10
Machine weighted stomach crunch 3x10
wide grip Pull ups - 3sets to failure

Morba · 8 Aug 2008 at 23:00

you are probably doing them wrong, its a ham exercise. probably bending in the wrong way

MTA99 · 9 Aug 2008 at 15:31

Morba said:
however, it sounds most likely a flexibility issue, its well worth trying to get more flexible, even if you still plan to neve do back squats again :]

+1

Both me and Wardie have suffered injuries from lack of flexibility. Use front squats to keep on top of the training but you MUST sort out your ham/hip/back flexibility

Teknobry · 9 Aug 2008 at 18:55

MTA99 said:
+1

Both me and Wardie have suffered injuries from lack of flexibility. Use front squats to keep on top of the training but you MUST sort out your ham/hip/back flexibility

Yeah, I fully agree its a flexibility problem, but I found doing squats with just the bar didn't seem to help. What exercises did you use to help with flexibility?

Ultra_Extreme · 9 Aug 2008 at 19:05

front squats cannot be done for high reps, your rhomboid fatigues more quickley than your quadriceps leading to a dangerous displacment of you middle back. Otherwise they are great but should not be substituted for full back squats, if you cant do back squats hack squats are a good compromise but youll need a trap bar or heavy DB's

carvegio · 9 Aug 2008 at 19:26

I wouldn't believe everything that Charles Poliquin says...

Ultra_Extreme · 9 Aug 2008 at 21:41

carvegio said:
I wouldn't believe everything that Charles Poliquin says...

lol yeah better just listen to the internetz instead

carvegio · 9 Aug 2008 at 23:56

Ultra_Extreme said:
lol yeah better just listen to the internetz instead

Unfortunately you just did by listening to him

and then posting his opinions...

The problem I have noticed with a lot of people and back squats is a mental one... Front squats are a great exercise and if you like them you should try them out for a while and see how it goes.

But it doesn't necessarily mean when you come back to back squats they will be much easier. It is worth the initial investment at the start to be able to perform them in good form and to start liking them (it does eventually happen). This might mean you need to do some flexibility work and maybe the front squats (and other exercises) can help strengthen your quads/hams and help with the knee pain (unless there is something more serious going on there).

Morba · 10 Aug 2008 at 11:33

carvegio said:
I wouldn't believe everything that Charles Poliquin says...

I wouldnt believe everything that any one person says, however, Poliquin would be one that I would listen to hell of a lot.
Why do you think he should not be believed in this case?

carvegio · 10 Aug 2008 at 11:50

Well I guess I was trying to say, without doing it well, that it might be true but at the same time it might not be and the key to success is to actually do something in the first place (within reason).

I can't tell you how many discussions I have seen/heard on front squat vs back squat, am vs pm cardio, high intensity vs steady state cardio, low reps vs medium reps, fasted vs non faster cardio, machines vs free weights, dumbbells vs barbell exercises etc etc...

But what usually gets lost is that you actually need to do something first, then see if it works, then adapt and rotate as necessary. Because at the end of the day usually everything else is so wrong in a person's regime that arguing such trivialities is pointless (i.e. is your diet spot on, do you sleep enough, do you keep your stress levels low, are you working out enough or too much etc).

And the difference will be so marginal and so different to every single person it is almost not worth talking about it in the first place.

But most of us here aren't pro's so it doesn't really matter at the end of the day that much.

I am not saying it applies to the op at all just in general you see this kind of stuff a lot.

Also, I think Poliquin's statement didn't have much proof with it. A lot of people do front squats with an 8-10 rep range and never have problems - the only proof I have for this is empirically speaking though. Plus everyone's physiology is so different and I am not sure how many people he looked at or studied before coming to this conclusion.

So if you feel happier front squatting just go for it!

Morba · 10 Aug 2008 at 14:29

one of the things you will notice here as you read more, a lot of us promote actually doing something, getting in the gym and actually trying something before recommending many other things

you are right in what you say though, a lot of the time for most people, it wont make the blindest bit of difference. squating, benching and doing some form or back work and shoulder pressing will work no different than any of the variations you can use for quite a while :]

Ultra_Extreme · 10 Aug 2008 at 16:01

you should always heed the advice of top coaches until proven otherwise, to not do is just naiive. They train more people, more closely, than any of us ever will and at the top level no less. They eat sleep and breathe training technique and confer with other coaches in a manner we could only dream of. They are always worth listening to.

Jeffstar · 10 Aug 2008 at 16:32

Ultra_Extreme said:
you should always heed the advice of top coaches until proven otherwise, to not do is just naiive. They train more people, more closely, than any of us ever will and at the top level no less. They eat sleep and breathe training technique and confer with other coaches in a manner we could only dream of. They are always worth listening to.

Unless, of course they just happen to have their own line of supplements out on the market, then they start to lose some credibility in regards their nutrition advice.

I must admit, i don't like Poliquins "guru" style articles or any of the T nation authors come to that. Paul Chek comes across as plank too. Fast buck merchants, the lot of them.

Back to topic, as Morba says: Front squats rock!