FTTC backhaul provider differences?

[g67575]

Is there much difference between the network backhaul used by BT (and Plusnet), and other companies such as Talktalk and Sky, for FTTC connections? How much can the backhaul provider effect the speed and reliabilty of a FTTC connection?

Is it true that Talktalk's backhaul can have congestion issues during peak times? Or, is this more likely to be caused by issues with an ISP's core network?

 

[Avalon]

1. No. For example Zen and others tend to use TT Business or BT Backhaul in many areas where they didn’t have LLU kit, they just rent the capacity they need. Congestion at the level you suggest is pretty unlikely, once a trigger % is reached it’s upgraded. Remember it’s copper to line card, fibre to agg.node/exchange where it’s then either handed over to the ISP’s fibre via LLU or one of the LLU providers who has capacity in the exchange, then back to core.

2. No. Since we had the utter stupidity of politicians pleading with Netflix etc to lower the quality of streams because the broadband network would not be able to cope during lockdown, most of the major ISP’s published data showing how monumentally stupid this claim was in the UK. TT has way more capacity than its customers have ever used.What did change was how the network was utilised, and again localised issues have been a thing. Last figures I saw suggested roughly 2-3% of cabs had a capacity issue of one form or another at any one time, but they are constantly being upgraded.

 

[Caged]

Very generally speaking, BT Wholesale has a lot more paths to choose from, whereas it's not uncommon for a Sky on-net exchange to be linked to the next one along with a single cable, and to see a fault take more than one exchange worth of customers offline.

All broadband services are contended, and this is likely to become far more apparent as the availability of 500Mbps+ service tiers expands. This is not going to be to the extent that your video streams downgrade though, it just might see a gigabit service drop to a few hundred Mbps during the evening peak.

 

[g67575]

It's just that I notice BT seems to have higher minimum speed ranges (on average), compared to other providers with different core and backhaul networks to BT.

For example, BT's 60mbps+ FTTC package has a minimum speed range of 58.3-60.7 mbps.
Talktalk's min range is 55.6-59.4mbps.
Sky's is the lowest at 51.1-55.9mbps.

From a 2019 Ofcom report, link here:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/wp-cont...m_2019_broadband_speeds_by_uk_isp_package.png

We know BT (including EE and Plusnet) currently have the most subscribers too, at 9.3 million, Sky 6.2m and Talktalk 4.2m. So, there should be more congestion on their network.

This could be just differences in the distance to FTTC cabinets, and things like if G.INP is enabled, or if lines are using 3dbm profiles or 6dbm profiles. Or, differences in FTTC take up in some areas, leading to greater contention in some areas and more crosstalk.

Or, maybe BT customers are more likey to live in urban areas, with better network infrastructure?

Or, perhaps BT's backhaul or core network just has more capacity on average?

 

[digitalwolf]

Is there much difference between the network backhaul used by BT (and Plusnet), and other companies such as Talktalk and Sky, for FTTC connections? How much can the backhaul provider effect the speed and reliabilty of a FTTC connection?

Is it true that Talktalk's backhaul can have congestion issues during peak times? Or, is this more likely to be caused by issues with an ISP's core network?

Having dealt with BTNet over the years, I know some BT exchanges have multiple fiber links onto the wholesale network and connectivity to at least two other exchanges in case of breakages etc.

TalkTalk have a substantial LLU network, which they have pumped millions upon millions into. They resell it to smaller niche ISP's, who will happily tell you what exchange capacity is like. You're unlikely to get gateway congestion on TT. I was with a TT reseller, Uno, for a couple of years and I must say they were excellent. Exchange capacity is what can sometimes cause issues with TT. They do have a NOC and service status page for the business arm which you can view.

Sky I have heard of daisy chaining at exchanges and them using multiple companies for fiber, ie TT Business and Virgin Media. How true it is? I have no idea. There was a large outage in the Midlands which wiped out TalkTalk, Virgin Media and Sky - so i'm guessing they're interlinked in some way. All BT Wholseale ISP's were fine.

One thing to remember about FTTC and FTTP is your backhaul may not be at the exchange you think it is. There are various handover exchanges where the likes of Sky, BT, TalkTalk and Zen have all their own kit.

Zen where possible will try and put you on their backhaul, not BT Wholsesale. They have their own network, gateways and POP's. They have also started reselling this to smaller ISP's. Uno being one.