Games: Dozer > Core at any price point?

FoxEye · 19 Oct 2015 at 20:49

My nephew wants to build a cheap gaming PC. I haven't dug into the benchmarks for recent AMD processors, but I gather the picture hasn't changed since Dozer was first released. Intel on top at all price points, right?

Athlon X4 860 beaten by Pentium G, 3-module FX6300 beaten by dual core i3 (pretty shocking that one, the i3 doesn't even have HT), etc.

Is there any price point where the AMD even comes close?

He wants to play Minecraft and CoD (when he's a bit older!)

remy87 · 19 Oct 2015 at 22:13

If you got access to MM try get a 2500k bundle if 2nd hand pc parts doesn't bother you.

SamyBoy13 · 19 Oct 2015 at 22:19

I would say as above market place. What is your budget?

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 20 Oct 2015 at 00:05

FoxEye said:
Athlon X4 860 beaten by Pentium G

Except in games which thread reasonably well and you saw issues with frametimes.

FoxEye said:
3-module FX6300 beaten by dual core i3 (pretty shocking that one, the i3 doesn't even have HT), etc.

The newer ones,but the FX6300 is quite old and quite long in the tooth sadly but has done reasonably against the SB and IB Core i3s(I had a Core i3 2100 myself and a Core i3 3220 for a short while and mates with FX6300 series CPUs) which were around when it was launched,but AMD never bothered updating it to the newer SR and Excavator designs,so it makes more sense to probably get a Skylake Core i3 now.

Mates FX6300/FX6350 CPUs have lasted them well though.

FoxEye said:
He wants to play Minecraft and CoD (when he's a bit older!)

Mates and myself have run Minecraft perfectly fine on the following CPUs:
1.)A10 5800K/Athlon II X4 760
2.)FX6300/FX6350
3.)Xeon E3 1230 V2
4.)Xeon E3 1230 V3
5.)A6 3670K
6.)Core i3 2100
7.)Xeon E3 1220
8.)Phenom II X4 B35 with L3 cache

Also seen loads of people with laptops running IGPs running it.

Heck,even fhe IGPs on the A10 5800K and A6 3670K could run it and a £65 to £70 A8 7600 or A8 7650K could even run it I suspect,but obviously a faster setup would be better if you really are into the mods.

Minecraft has been so popular since it scales well to even lower end hardware like Lol or DOTA2.

FoxEye · 20 Oct 2015 at 01:50

SamyBoy13 said:
I would say as above market place. What is your budget?

His budget is £500, but he wants to build it himself. He's only 12!

I've been trying to put him off, tbh. He's a bit young to be building a PC.

ukxenon · 20 Oct 2015 at 06:28

Never too young if you ask me ... let him. Uild it and you watch

passey89 · 20 Oct 2015 at 06:54

FoxEye said:
His budget is £500, but he wants to build it himself. He's only 12!

I've been trying to put him off, tbh. He's a bit young to be building a PC.

Me and ny son built his gaming pc and hes only 6 now think he was 5 at the time.

Never too young to steer him away from the console rubbish.

joeyjojo · 20 Oct 2015 at 08:28

Tom's still gives the X4 860K and FX-6300 favourable verdicts versus the G3258.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-2.html

In the mid-range they still recommend the FX-8320 alongside (locked) i3s and i5s.

FoxEye · 20 Oct 2015 at 12:30

ukxenon said:
Never too young if you ask me ... let him. Uild it and you watch

passey89 said:
Me and ny son built his gaming pc and hes only 6 now think he was 5 at the time.

Never too young to steer him away from the console rubbish.

It's not console vs PC, it's pre-built vs letting him build one by himself. His mum asked me if I thought he could do it, so I asked him some basic questions to see if he could.

And it's not his age exactly, it's the fact that he doesn't know enough to do it. But he's very headstrong and thinks all he has to do is buy a CPU and some memory and plug it together!

I built my first PC at 16, with no help from anyone, because nobody in my family knew about computers. And I'd been learning about PCs since age 12.

Without a lot of help he isn't going to be able to do it, so I'm really not sure what the point is. Building something with your dad/uncle is not exactly doing it yourself. And he wants to do it by himself, alone.

David Bisset · 20 Oct 2015 at 13:36

He's not far wrong though. It's not a complicated process and what does it matter if he learns how from a person or from the internet or by trial & error while following a manual?

I was building things I knew very little about from when I was about 7 without adult intervention, like RC cars from kits etc - computers are physically much easier to build. Someone being available to help and being around to check things over before first switch-on would be sensible, but no reason to stop someone trying on their own if they're willing to have a go. (I'd go over some rules first to avoid electrocution of course!)

The biggest problem is it's risking fairly expensive kit. Perhaps have a trial run with old kit no-one uses any more? And/or write out staged instructions with checkups at the end of each stage to minimise opportunities for mistakes to get missed?

FoxEye · 20 Oct 2015 at 14:19

Because he didn't even know that an AMD processor wouldn't fit in an Intel motherboard.

It may not be complicated to us, but even now I'd do a few days research before building a new PC, so I'm not 100% in agreement there.

But when you're a headstrong 12 year old boy, who is spending his parents money, and doesn't have a clue what he's doing - in that case my advice is to learn a lot more before you make the attempt. Which is what I told his mum.

e: his parents don't have enough moeny that they can buy CPUs and mobos and let him destroy them in his attempts

I imagine RC car kits are a bit cheaper.

Scania · 20 Oct 2015 at 17:25

FoxEye said:
His budget is £500, but he wants to build it himself. He's only 12!

I've been trying to put him off, tbh. He's a bit young to be building a PC.

Encourage him! Offer a helping hand but let him do it.

I was upgrading my BBC Model A to Model B specs when I was 12 (1983! How old do I feel?!) I was soldering wires, I.C's and cutting tracks too, under supervision from my father who had no clue what I was doing, it worked first time though and still worked 15years later when I finally sold it on!

Building a PC is literally child's play by comparison.

FoxEye · 20 Oct 2015 at 22:15

Scania said:
Encourage him! Offer a helping hand but let him do it.

I was upgrading my BBC Model A to Model B specs when I was 12 (1983! How old do I feel?!) I was soldering wires, I.C's and cutting tracks too, under supervision from my father who had no clue what I was doing, it worked first time though and still worked 15years later when I finally sold it on!

Building a PC is literally child's play by comparison.

Heh. Thread has gone wildly off topic, but hey ho.

As regards you and your Micro... some kids are that way inclined, curious and methodical, and patient. Other kids are not.

Sometimes you just know it's not going to work out well. Every child is different, and you don't give a child hundreds of pounds worth of equipment if you aren't sure it isn't going to be broken.

In fairness, what you did at 12 is the exception, not the rule. I'd be a lot happier if he were 15 or 16.

passey89 · 21 Oct 2015 at 06:25

FoxEye said:
Heh. Thread has gone wildly off topic, but hey ho.

As regards you and your Micro... some kids are that way inclined, curious and methodical, and patient. Other kids are not.

Sometimes you just know it's not going to work out well. Every child is different, and you don't give a child hundreds of pounds worth of equipment if you aren't sure it isn't going to be broken.

In fairness, what you did at 12 is the exception, not the rule. I'd be a lot happier if he were 15 or 16.

Why even ask the question about oarts if your so set against him building / helping him?

Buy him a £50 old crappy dell pc off fleebay take it appart and give him the parts and tell him to build it. At least then he will have an idea.

Part of growing up is problem solving. Building a pc is easy nowadays it really is.

Everything will only go into 1 hole.

Hedge · 21 Oct 2015 at 07:09

Why can't you just help him out instead of write the kid off at the first hurdle. What a weird attitude to have. I'd be happy if my nephew was even half as keen as that to build a pc.

If he's capable of using a screw driver then he doesn't exactly need much else. Except...Maybe a little bit of friendly support.

You get the opportunity to spend quality time with your nephew and you take this approach to him. You can simply supervise him not criticise him.

Crazy.

David Bisset · 21 Oct 2015 at 08:56

FoxEye said:
Because he didn't even know that an AMD processor wouldn't fit in an Intel motherboard.

It may not be complicated to us, but even now I'd do a few days research before building a new PC, so I'm not 100% in agreement there.

But when you're a headstrong 12 year old boy, who is spending his parents money, and doesn't have a clue what he's doing - in that case my advice is to learn a lot more before you make the attempt. Which is what I told his mum.

e: his parents don't have enough moeny that they can buy CPUs and mobos and let him destroy them in his attempts I imagine RC car kits are a bit cheaper.

You can help and/or just pick the bits for him, he'll still get all the excitement and enthusiasm of having built it himself. I do agree about the cost thing, so some care does need taken, and obviously I don't know the kid at all and maybe he's quite the destroyer in which case that may change my mind but in general encouraging them to get involved seems entirely a good thing.

*shrug*

FoxEye · 21 Oct 2015 at 16:31

passey89 said:
Buy him a £50 old crappy dell pc off fleebay take it appart and give him the parts and tell him to build it. At least then he will have an idea.

This is not a bad idea.

Part of growing up is problem solving. Building a pc is easy nowadays it really is.

Everything will only go into 1 hole.

This I don't agree with at all. It is very easy to damage or destroy PC parts if you literally have no idea what you're doing. Fail to put on thermal paste (or too much/too little), fail to plug the CPU fan in, plug in the USB headers the wrong way round... (you can destroy just about any USB device doing that). Bent motherboard CPU pins, etc, etc, etc.

Never seen a typical 12 year old boy try to force a round peg into a square hole?

I'm sorry but there's a massive difference between a 12 year old and a 15/16 year old. Normally

Also you're assuming that I'm anywhere near him and available to supervise the attempt when he makes it.

Anyway, to end the thread, him and his mum have agreed to wait a year, and in the meantime he'll try to learn a bit more about PCs and components. Perhaps in the meantime he can buy a crappy Dell of ebay and practice taking it apart and putting it back together.

Or he might move on to some other idea and forget entirely he wanted to do this

passey89 · 21 Oct 2015 at 16:54

FoxEye said:
Fail to put on thermal paste (or too much/too little) Stock Heatsink is already applied, fail to plug the CPU fan in will just overheat and power down before any damage occurs, plug in the USB headers the wrong way round Can't as 1 has a pin missing and is solid on the cable so you physicaly can't push it in... (you can destroy just about any USB device doing that). Bent motherboard CPU pins Possible if you force the cpu down instead of letting it slot in, etc, etc, etc.

Never mind anyway as you've all decided against it.

Hedge · 21 Oct 2015 at 17:02

passey89 said:
Never mind anyway as you've all decided against it.

Yeah I read his post thinking exactly the same.

Why can't his parents supervise and you give a bit of advice? All he needs is a YouTube video and literally anyone is capable.

You kinda rendered the whole thread pointless because regardless of dozer/Intel capabilities you were never gonna let the kid have a go anyway.

Maybe you're just scared he's more developed than you were at 12 and you don't want him taking your glory as the only pc nerd in the family

FoxEye · 21 Oct 2015 at 19:39

Hedge said:
Maybe you're just scared he's more developed than you were at 12 and you don't want him taking your glory as the only pc nerd in the family

Believe me, I'd like nothing more than if he took over the role of being our family's tech support guy. Would be awesome.

Has it occurred to you that I might know him a little better than randoms on the internet, tho? I know it sounds absurd, but just pretend for a second that I do...

passey89 said:
Never mind anyway as you've all decided against it.

Yup it was as much his mum's decision. She probably knows him quite well as well.