Getting rid of ground ivy

Russinating · 14 Mar 2016 at 22:08

We've got a small back garden but a large proportion of it is covered in ground ivy after the garden has gone untended for a year or so. There's not many other plants and we'll be starting from scratch with them anyway, but there is a tree and some roses on a wall to the end that we want to keep.

What's the best way of getting rid of the stuff? The main section we'll be later covering in astro (and whatever sub-membrane that requires) as well.

Borealis · 14 Mar 2016 at 22:40

Ivy will re-grow from any fragment left on the ground, it's a PITA and is heaven for slugs and snails, but you probably already knew that!

If you're not averse to using chemicals, then protect the tree/roses you want to keep with plastic to avoid overspray and treat the ivy with a glyphosate-based weed killer. Get one of the stronger ones as it'll work better. If you get a concentrate, you can mix it up stronger than the label says. It will likely take more than one application but the ivy will eventually die. Brushwood killer will also work, but could poison the soil.

That's how we cleared an infested border at home. It also helps if you bruise the leaves first i.e. trample it, as mature ivy has a tough waxy layer that stops the weed killer from getting in. If you bruise the leaves, it breaks the layer and the glyphosate is more readily absorbed.

The organic method is to either dig it up completely or cover it in a non-permeable weed-control membrane with a deep of mulch for two growing seasons!

a1ex2001 · 15 Mar 2016 at 09:33

as above it's either back breaking labour or chemicals, personally I'd go chemical give it a really good dose and then spray any regrowth as soon as it appears it will take some time to kill it completely but eventually it's energy stores will be depleted an you will win.

koolpc · 15 Mar 2016 at 09:36

Fresh Lion wee is the best

Russinating · 15 Mar 2016 at 09:51

Thanks guys. Bought some Roundup Tree Stump Killer which contains 360g/l glyphosate acid. I'll do the back-breaking work first - it's not a huge area, maybe 4m2 - and use chemicals for the roots and any leftovers.

How long after doing all the above, and their visually being no live remnants of ivy, would you be happy to put the builders sand, weed membrane and astro down confidently?

Borealis · 15 Mar 2016 at 10:05

Yup, stump killer will do the job. It's designed to kill tree stumps so it's stronger than your average weed killer. You want to be fairly sure that it's dead before putting down the sand and membrane, otherwise it'll just try to re-grow out the edges/through the membrane.

You're probably looking at giving it a few weeks to make sure it's gone, just to make sure any buried fragments that have sprouted can be treated. Of course in the meantime, any other weeds could try to take over!

a1ex2001 · 15 Mar 2016 at 10:07

Russinating said:
Thanks guys. Bought some Roundup Tree Stump Killer which contains 360g/l glyphosate acid. I'll do the back-breaking work first - it's not a huge area, maybe 4m2 - and use chemicals for the roots and any leftovers.

How long after doing all the above, and their visually being no live remnants of ivy, would you be happy to put the builders sand, weed membrane and astro down confidently?

Spray before you do any digging or other work the weed killer works by being absorbed through the leaves and down into the roots, walk around on it to back it up a bit and then give it a healthy spray. You would probably be better off waiting a month or so until it warms up as all weed killers work best when plants are actively growing not dormant.

Borealis · 15 Mar 2016 at 10:32

That's a good point. Once the growing season starts and sap is rising, then the weed killer will be absorbed faster and take effect sooner.

I would agree with alex that spraying before digging would be a good idea. Spray it, give it a week or so to take effect and the start digging it out. Although the weed killer can be absorbed by applying it to the cut stems, you'll get a better effect by applying it en-masse to bruised foliage.

Blackjack Davy · 15 Mar 2016 at 10:41

Hang on are you talking about ivy growing on the ground or Ground Elder? If its the latter than a dosing with herbicide is the only answer other than covering the ground with carpets for a several months. If its ivy then probably digging it out, if you spray it it'll die but you'll still have to clear it away, dead or alive. Once its gone though it shouldn't return, unlike Ground Elder which is nigh on impossible to dig out successfully because it'll just keep on coming back.

Russinating · 15 Mar 2016 at 11:10

How do I now if it's ivy or ground elder?

Borealis · 15 Mar 2016 at 11:20

Ground elder is one of the worst things you can have the misfortune of trying to get rid of. It will resprout from the slightest fragment and come back twice as strong. As you can tell I hate the stuff with a passion! My parents' neighbours have a garden full of it and it's a yearly battle to stop it invading our garden.

If it is ground elder, don't even bother trying to dig it out, just nuke it repeatedly with weed killer!

Jono · 15 Mar 2016 at 11:24

I used roundup weedkiller gel (not sure what strength it is) on some Ivy that was climbing up my back wall. Cut it with loppers/secateurs and smeared it all over the cut. I though it was dead, but just been pointed out to me that it's back. Grrr.

It worked ok on the stuff at the front of the house. Will have to attack it with something else, but don't know what.

Borealis · 15 Mar 2016 at 11:34

The regular roundup gel is fairly strong, but is aimed at spot-treatment. Whilst you may have stunted it's growth, the first treatment can't have finished the job. It's worth giving it more doses of Roundup before going any further.

If a repeated dose of glyphosate still doesn't work and there isn't anything valuable plant-wise in the area, you could try a triclopyr based product. The most common one available seems to be Vitax SBK Brushwood Killer. You'll have to wait until summer for that stuff to be truly effective and they advise not re-planting in the area for 6 weeks - it's not a pleasant chemical!

Jono · 15 Mar 2016 at 12:16

Cool

Thanks. Do you know what "the area" is defined as? This stuff is on the outside of my property boundary wall. (Backs onto a main road with just some grash/bushes infested with nettles and ivy on it. Think it's council owned, but we, the houses that back onto it are responsible for its upkeep)

Borealis · 15 Mar 2016 at 12:53

Vitax apparently kills docks... so that should give you an idea of how heavy duty it is. It won't kill grass, but will kill anything broad-leaved like ivy and nettles. If you brush/spray onto only the ivy, it shouldn't contaminate the ground or soil. Typically this sort of chemical is used for ground clearance where it is sprayed onto the foliage/soil to clear all brush cover.

Here's the product page:
http://www.vitax.co.uk/home-garden/sbk-brushwood-killer/
I recommend you look at the pdf of the label.

I recommend you look up the active ingredient Triclopyr before you consider using it, so you have an idea of how potentially nasty this stuff could be. The stuff is safe to use if you're careful and take the right precautions i.e. gloves and/or mask if spraying. I know it will kill ground elder outright, we've used it on our infestation before!

Entropy · 15 Mar 2016 at 12:58

Ammonium sulfamate is great for accelerating the compost heap you appear to be wanting, just make sure you don't spill any on the cut ivy stems. Seriously suggest you look it up on the web before considering any triclopyr based products.

Borealis · 15 Mar 2016 at 13:31

Ammonium sulfamate is a good compost accelerator and contact weedkiller but it isn't systemic. It's also been banned for a while as a pesticide by the EU.

Yeah, that's why I said look up Triclopyr before going down that route. It's not that chemically different to Agent Orange. :eek:

It's pretty much a chemical last resort if nothing else works.

Russinating · 15 Mar 2016 at 15:20

Borealis said:
Ground elder is one of the worst things you can have the misfortune of trying to get rid of. It will resprout from the slightest fragment and come back twice as strong. As you can tell I hate the stuff with a passion! My parents' neighbours have a garden full of it and it's a yearly battle to stop it invading our garden.

If it is ground elder, don't even bother trying to dig it out, just nuke it repeatedly with weed killer!

Pretty sure it's not ground elder, doesn't look like that anyway.

valve90210 · 15 Mar 2016 at 16:10

Entropy said:
Ammonium sulfamate is great for accelerating the compost heap you appear to be wanting, just make sure you don't spill any on the cut ivy stems. Seriously suggest you look it up on the web before considering any triclopyr based products.

Borealis said:
Ammonium sulfamate is a good compost accelerator and contact weedkiller but it isn't systemic. It's also been banned for a while as a pesticide by the EU.

Yeah, that's why I said look up Triclopyr before going down that route. It's not that chemically different to Agent Orange. It's pretty much a chemical last resort if nothing else works.

That sounds like just the thing I need for one of my front boarders which has some horrible plant that has so far survived everything I've thrown at it including glysophate, bleach, and hatred!!

Borealis · 15 Mar 2016 at 16:43

Alternatively, what about an agricultural blowtorch?

The Vitax stuff is safe to use, just be responsible with it. We had some random stuff that came from birdseed. Total nightmare to deal with and made ground elder seem easy to control. Hence why we now buy the no-mess sterile birdseed...