Getting the best out of my DT770 Pro

[maj]

After recommendations on here, awhile ago I bought a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250ohm's but I'm wondering if I'm getting the best out of them with my current setup.

Couldn't get the ASUS sound card I bought to work no matter what I tried, so bought a FiiO E7 which is connected to my on-board sound.

Not being a huge audiophile the headset seems to perform okay, I'm just not sure if I'm getting the best sound I can out of them with having the 250ohm version (shop I bought them from didn't have 80ohm version). Don't play a lot of computer games these days and only really use them for watching films, and listening to music.

Should the on-board sound combined with the amp be more than enough? The amp itself has options (bass, treble, balance) but I'm not sure what would be best. However I'm guessing that will come down to personal preference.

Anyone else got the same headset and how do you power yours? Preferably those with the 250ohm version but thoughts of those with the 80ohm version will be appreciated too.

 

[maj]

The DT770 is sensitive. You are powering them fine, any more power and you will be looking at the amps benefit rather then the phone peaking.

Not being clued up on my audio I think I know what you mean by that. Good to know I'm powering them right though.

 

[maj]

I have the DT770 250ohms as well, and been through the mill.

The Fiio E7 definitely will not drive them anywhere near their potential (IME), I have an E7 and it also sounded a bit hollow.. I also have a Xonar DX which drove them a little better, but still didn't sound that cohesive..

In the end, I get the FiiO E09K, fed from the E7, and with a tiny bit of EQ I can finally get the bass/clarity that I was expecting (well, actually it goes way way beyond what I actually 'need')..

I now use the set up in work, and have just perfect bass balance that hits hard to be impactful, yet I can still listen for extended periods..

It really depends if you want that powerful/impactful bottom end or not..
My Xonar Dx, Galaxy Note 3 both drive the headphones reasonably well that most people would probably be happy, but I'm a bit of a bass-head, and the E09K goes well passed 11 in that regard, so you have plenty of room to EQ them to match your tastes.

Asus Xonar STX and DT990 pro's (250ohm) here and no problems whatsoever. Volume wise I rarely go above half way, usually around 30%~40% for the sake of my ears.

Guess it comes down to personal preference then. Some say it's got enough power, some say I will need more. Trouble is, I don't know what to expect or what to look for with regards to knowing if I'm getting the best out of the headphones. Yeah the amp makes them nice and loud but not sure what else to look for.

why didn't the sound card work ? not wishing to sound patronising but you did plug the floppy power lead in to it right ?

I started a thread about a year ago. From what I can remember there was no floppy connector but I still have it so could take a look again.

edit: In case it helps matters I have the FiiO E07K not the E7

 

[maj]

Thanks for the info, I've noted a few things:

1. The E07K "Drive Ability"is rated as 16-100 ohms, so I'd think it's ability to drive 250ohm headphones is quite limited (the E09K has over 4 times the power)

2. There are many Asus sound cards, some have more powerful 'headphone' amps, some don't.. My Dx is just adequate, it doesn't have a headphone amp built in, but isn't completely useless, what it has is a very clean output which sounds great into a seperate headphone AMP.
The STX is even more high end and has a headphone AMP built in.
The DGX is low end but also has a headphone AMP built in, but I get mixed results from people driving 250Ohm DT990's

It sounds like the E07K would not be suitable if you want to get the most out the headphones, and maybe get the DGX working.. if that doesn't drive them to your satisfaction, then you want to start looking at headphone AMPs that are known to drive 250ohms well, or a good soundcard that is also known to work well with 250ohms..

1. That's interesting to know. Seems I haven't done my research properly and would explain why I feel these headphones don't sound as good as some people say they do.

2. So again by buying the DGX I haven't done my research

So seems my options are to either buy a DX card and connect it to my E07K, buy STX card and connect them to my E07K, or buy something like E09K and plug the E07K into it if I've understood everything.

 

[maj]

I had a DGX and it couldn't drive the 250ohm DT990's to acceptable levels and I even found that my Soundblaster Z struggled too. I have the gain settings on high (64~300ohm) on the STX and the amp has no trouble driving them.

Ok thanks for the info. Seems buying the DGX was a bad choice!

It's mostly preference, a lot of people can be picky about certain sounds. Also headfi has influenced a lot of people and even got them believing they need a power plant for everything.

If you look at the sensitivity of all the DT770 models even 600ohm, they will all be identical. The higher ohms for people who have more high end equipment. You can literally run any Beyer on an iPhone but the lows will sound quite suppressed.

In terms of what to look how for, volume, dynamics and the overall quality. The DT770 sounds quite V shaped, powerful slightly accentuated bass that is a bit loose, extended bright treble and balanced mids that can sound a bit behind the other two. Wide soundstage, good separation.

Your current set up is fine to run a headphone as sensitive as the 770. I've had my 770 hooked up to an E6 and then tried it on some truly crazy gear that probably could resemble a nuclear station. The only differences I've had are either some added warmth or a tad better dynamics but let's be honest, no-one is going to buy a £1000 amp to hook up the DT770, Don't worry enjoy your Beyers!

Really useful information there thanks. Although with the last paragraph, I've had it pointed out to me that the E07K amp I have only supports a maximum of 100ohm.

 

[maj]

Well... I don't know whether you have considered these first..

1. Are you listening to lossless files?
If not, then the real first thing to do will be to replace your mp3 files with lossless like FLAC or WAV (not a fan of apple lossless).

2. If you are using on-board output -> Fiio E7, try using USB output to E7 and use the DAC from E7 first. If you want a clearer sound, try a dedicated USB DAC like Audioquest Dragonfly or iBasso DB2.

I'm not listening to lossless files no. Wouldn't know where to start. At the moment it's mp3, youtube, and movies in mkv format.

I have my E07K connected to my computer using one of the front USB ports which is used as the sound input from my mobo. If I'm using the USB cable does that mean I'm using the E07K as a DAC? The only other cable I have plugged in is the headset.

I don't quite agree with this.

I started out with my FiiO E7 (Small USB DAC) and tried that with some 250Ohm DT770's I bought from the forums here and in terms of volume level they where exceedingly quiet in comparison to every other headphone (all low impedance) I own..

I then tried the Xonar Dx in my main PC, this had more volume, more bass and sounded just about OK as long as you didn't want to crank up the volume because the bass just dropped off (relatively) and still only just reached acceptable volumes..

I've tried iPhones, Galaxy S4 and Note III, and while they can drive them, they never reach enough SPL and have reduced bass..

So I caved in and ordered an E09K as it seemed to be cheap enough and confirmed to run the 250ohms beyers easily..

And sure enough, it more then drives them, I can EQ the bass to be more to my liking whilst having the volume levels I desire, having the bass stay impactful as you turn the volume up elevates my listening pleasure no end!

Looking at AMPs, their mw output ratings drop with impedance, so the DT770's are all rated at 100mW and 109 dB SPL, so I assume that getting an amp that can approach 100mW @ 250Ohms is necessary?

Could you please explain to me how the E09K works when combined with the E07K? I've watched a few youtube videos but knowing very little about audio a lot of it went straight over my head. I am tempted to go down this route if it means my E07K has a purpose.

Also some of the videos I watched chose the E17 over the E07K.

I wouldn't hook the E7 up to your soundcard. It has an inbuilt DAC which will likely be higher in quality so just connect it up via USB and get that added benefit too.

As above, it's connected via USB to one of the front USB ports on my computer. That's the only input cable connected. So I have it setup correctly?

Thanks for all the replies so far really appreciate it as I don't have a clue! So many options being suggested that I just don't know what to do. This thread has started an interesting debate it seems

I spoke to a work colleague today, and they suggested I looked at headphone amps like Neco Soundlab or Head Box S but I don't know much about them. I do think the desktop amp is the route I'll go down as it means I can take it with me (not in a carry it out with me sort of way) where as with my computer I sometimes can't.

 

[maj]

Yeah you have it set up correctly. With the way that you originally worded it I assumed that you had your sound card connected to the E7 by a 3.5mm cable, which would mean it would be using the sound cards output and simply amplifying it. That is fine but the DAC on the E7 is likely superior to onboard sound and at the very least will have less background noise. You have it set up using USB so you have will use the DAC as well.

Well good to know I have it set up correctly. Although what DAC is, what it does, and why it's important is like greek to me

I take it you have these headphones too? How do you power yours?

What I'm looking at the moment is either buying the E09K and then using the E07K as the DAC. The E09K has a drive ability of 16-600ohm and the E07K has a drive ability of 16-100ohm. Will that be enough power to run as a DAC?

Or sell the E07K and buy something like the Schiit D) Modi & Magni as these get good reviews and are reasonably price.

 

[maj]

The E09K is a much more powerful amplifier so can drive higher impedance headphones more easily. It also has a dock for the E07K and E17K so that when connected, they act as DACs and the amplification is taken care of by the E09K.

Thanks for your explanation. Does it matter how powerful the DAC is then?

 

[maj]

The power deficiency is in the E07K's amplifier not the DAC. The DAC in the EO7K feeds the desktop amplifier in the EO9K which is a lot more powerful than the mobile amp in the E07K.
The E09K has an output impedance of 10ohms so isn't really suited to any headphones under 80ohms. It has plenty of power for mid-high impedance cans but with low impedance cans it may sound a little loose and imprecise at low frequencies. With the 250ohm Beyers the pairing will work fine so no worries there.
The Magni/Modi setup has a low impedance and plenty of power so will be good across the whole range.

DAC is unpowered, it just converts digital to analogue (hence the name ). Better DAC just means 'more lossless' to put it at its most basic.

Thanks for the explanations so my E07K would be suitable as a DAC when paired with the E09K.

Plus point of staying with FiiO is my E07K would have a use and it would be more than enough power. Could also un-dock it and use it with mobile phone or ipod etc as an amp when on the move. Would need to make sure I have space for the DAC to be docked in it as not much space on desk or on top of computer case where my current amp is. Would also need to bare in mind if I changed headset they might not perform well.

Magi & Modi are stackable and would provide enough power too. They are compatible with more headphones than the FiiO range but would cost me around £200 to buy excluding cables. Not sure how easy they would be to get repaired if needed as only one UK supplier which I've not heard of or used before.

Just can't decide.

I am swaying more towards the E09K as I doubt I'll go below 100ohms again for a headset.

 

[maj]

Back again!

Well still no further forward. Having to buy a new front bumper for the car hasn't helped as it meant putting buying an amp on hold.

Anyway... been reading a lot on head-fi forums as the Schiit products come highly recommend on there. Was all set to get the Modi & Magni combo until someone on there suggested I get the Vali amp instead as it's more suited to my cans as it uses tubes to get more out of them rather than the Magni which simply just amplifies the output (solid state). Does anyone have any experience with tube maps?

Since my last post I also came across the EHP-O2Di but couldn't really find any information in the specs to confirm if it would be powerful enough. An e-mail to the manufacturer said it would be more than enough but then they would say that to get the sale. Can anyone confirm if this is the case? I need an amp that does 250ohm as a minimum.

I was speaking to a work colleague who's really into his music and sets up gigs etc and they said that because I'm using onboard sound with a relatively modern mobo, I have no need for a DAC. Is this right? As DACs seem to come recommend alongside an amp. I am contemplating selling this computer and getting a tablet instead as I don't use it to play computer games any more. Would this change whether I'd need just an amp or both?

If I do just need an amp I might be tempted to splash more on just buying a more powerful amp.

 

[maj]

Sell PC and use tablet as primary device....? Are you stupid?

Tablets are an accessory. They are ****.

Keep PC and buy a Schit modi/vali combo.

It's taking up quite a bit of room and I only use it for browsing the web and listening to music. Could always downgrade I guess and get a small factor one.

 

[maj]

My mate runs his Senn 650's on an STX and it seems to power them fine. They're 300ohm iirc.

Couldn't get the sound card I bought to work unfortunately. I have a link to the thread I created at the time I was having trouble on the first page and just gave up on it in the end.

Wouldn't need to mess around finding a suitable amp if it worked. Like headphones, there's just so much choice.

 

[maj]

So do you still have the STX?
If so give it another try and this time ensure that you plug a molex connector into the front as it needs this to power it correctly.
The STX should be set to medium gain (64~300ohms) and will drive the headphones very, very easily.

Yeah still have it stored away. It wasn't the STX I bought, was the DGX.

I will give it another try tomorrow. Will it still drive the headphones compared to the STX?

Appreciate all the help and suggestions so far.

edit: looking at the specs of the card even if I get it working it only supports up to 150ohm.