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Getting the best performance of a 3800x without manual overclock

Postmodum

Postmodum

Postmodum

Associate
Joined
25 Mar 2011
Posts
115
Location
Portugal
Hey … so I finalized my build … or almost, still waiting for a 360 aio … but meanwhile i'm "playing around" with the system.

So I wasn't able to get 3800/1900 on the memory, as soon as I get to that speed I have no Post. The max I have is 3733 16-16-16-32 1T @ 1867 IF. Good enough!

Now I want to really understand what to optimize in the Bios to get the most of the CPU, without manual overclock.

Base system is
3800X
MSI Unify
16Gb TeamGroup Xtreem 8Pack 4500

So, some questions

a) PBO .. yes or no? ( plus, enhance mode 1, 2, 3 and 4... wtf? :P )
b) Auto OC … yes or no and … where do I activate that?! I don't see that option anywhere
c) I see 1.47v on idle … should I manually change the vcore to a bare minimum with testing?


Thank you so much for the help :)
 
Hi postmodum,

So far IMHO there seems to be no rhyme or reason to get to the 1900 IF on the CPU - many say this is down to the silicon lottery but if you are waiting on an AIO and you are using the Wraith cooler then maybe the AIO will help.

Auto overclock you set in Ryzen MAster. I get best max boost on my 3800X with this.

1.47v max on idle is fine as long as it's max not average. Just looked at my HWinfo64 and 1.5 across the board. See Jay2cents for lowering the voltage to somewhere where he thought it should be. :D

If you are a gamer then test PBO & Auto OC, but you'll probably not feel a tangible difference, If you are a bencher for scores then others'll chime in with 'the know'
 
I'm no bencher … I mean, until I get to a setup I like, I bench but just to see how much improvements I get, but other than that... I don't do it :p

So, you only choose Auto OC, no PBO ?

Going to give a try :)
 
Postmodum said:
Hey … so I finalized my build … or almost, still waiting for a 360 aio … but meanwhile i'm "playing around" with the system.

So I wasn't able to get 3800/1900 on the memory, as soon as I get to that speed I have no Post. The max I have is 3733 16-16-16-32 1T @ 1867 IF. Good enough!

Now I want to really understand what to optimize in the Bios to get the most of the CPU, without manual overclock.

Base system is
3800X
MSI Unify
16Gb TeamGroup Xtreem 8Pack 4500

So, some questions

a) PBO .. yes or no? ( plus, enhance mode 1, 2, 3 and 4... wtf? :p )
b) Auto OC … yes or no and … where do I activate that?! I don't see that option anywhere
c) I see 1.47v on idle … should I manually change the vcore to a bare minimum with testing?


Thank you so much for the help :)
Click to expand...

Follow the steps here
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/1usmus-custom-power-plan-for-ryzen-3000-zen-2-processors/

use this powerplan
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/1usmus-custom-power-plan-ryzen-3000-zen-2/

Extra step needed activate XFR on your motherboard, but not PBO.

Alternative use this powerplan here (v3)
https://www.computerbase.de/2019-11/amd-ryzen-3000-250-mhz-energiesparplan-1usmus/

Nothing else is needed. :)

Assuming you aren't chasing numbers in CB20 ofc.
 
Panos said:
Follow the steps here
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/1usmus-custom-power-plan-for-ryzen-3000-zen-2-processors/

use this powerplan
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/1usmus-custom-power-plan-ryzen-3000-zen-2/

Extra step needed activate XFR on your motherboard, but not PBO.

Alternative use this powerplan here (v3)
https://www.computerbase.de/2019-11/amd-ryzen-3000-250-mhz-energiesparplan-1usmus/

Nothing else is needed. :)

Assuming you aren't chasing numbers in CB20 ofc.
Click to expand...
Exactly what Panos said. I would also suggest trying the Performance Enhancer option and setting it to 3 or 4.

On my Asus Crosshair VIII Hero board i have Performance Enhancer option 1-3 and 3 gives a significantly higher boost frequency due to the values shown in Ryzen Master (PPT, EDC etc) being raised to their maximum values without the neeed to run Ryzen Master Tool in Windows.
 
LtMatt said:
Exactly what Panos said. I would also suggest trying the Performance Enhancer option and setting it to 3 or 4.

On my Asus Crosshair VIII Hero board i have Performance Enhancer option 1-3 and 3 gives a significantly higher boost frequency due to the values shown in Ryzen Master (PPT, EDC etc) being raised to their maximum values without the neeed to run Ryzen Master Tool in Windows.
Click to expand...

Yes thats the XFR settings in the Asrock bios. Just named differently :)
advanced/amd cbs/nbio common options/xfr enhancement/accepted

All manual, power values 999 (maximum), Level 5x while the Actual PBO under advanced/amd overclocking/amd overclocking/precision boost override is OFF when using 1usmus or Auto when using Community Power plan v3
 
ok …. under MSI I need to check what name they give ...
So many names, so little time... :D

( Duke Nukem quote: So many babes, so little time. )

ehehe
 
Postmodum said:
So, some questions
a) PBO .. yes or no? ( plus, enhance mode 1, 2, 3 and 4... wtf? :p )
b) Auto OC … yes or no and … where do I activate that?! I don't see that option anywhere
c) I see 1.47v on idle … should I manually change the vcore to a bare minimum with testing?
Click to expand...

OK you do not want to manual overclock and want the best settings.

Best settings are subjective and will change between BIOS Agesa,power plan ETC.

AMD has done a very good job with the algorithm getting best possible performance just by letting the CPU do it's thing in BIOS.

All Ryzen BIOS under light load/idle will have CPU voltage up to 1.5v and under heavy load CPU voltage will be reduced.

Any Enhanced mode will add CPU voltage and CPU clocks and power plans will add CPU voltage and CPU clocks.Usually the lower level power saver profile will add voltage and CPU clocks on light loads.Under heavy load less CPU voltage and Clocks.

Any enhanced mode is Auto overclock mode. That is why you could not find auto overclock , check my screenshot below on Ryzen Master for auto overclock.
EG: Enhanced mode 4 on your motherboard will raise CPU clocks and CPU voltage along with different power plans.The Enhanced mode 4 is the best for your motherboard for best performance in light work loads and under heavy loads.You can gain an additional CPU clocks approximately up to 100Mhz depends on CPU.

So best base settings for your Motherboard and you would have to test every BIOS and Powerplan ,which will not make much difference at all then just letting the CPU do it's thing.

First setup CPU fan profiles in BIOS so you have quite operation at all times on desktop and then when you start to use the CPU the fans kick in to cool CPU.

You can set CPU fan/Pump and 4 other fans to adjust while using your computer.

Set enhanced mode 4 in your BIOS for best CPU clock when running light loads to heavy loads.

AMD Ryzen 3800X voltages for synced 1:1:1 MEMCLK/FCLK/UCLK at 3866Mhz or 1933Mhz for highest performance.
Note on CPU voltage ,when enhanced mode is set to 4 ,you CPU voltage will increase from approximately 1.48v to 1.52v in BIOS .This will give you higher CPU clocks on light loads and heavy loads.

Also with setting any enhanced mode with power plan and BIOS Agesa the
CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) can go as high as 1.55V on CPU with newer BIOS and I have seen 1.58V on older BIOS under light loads and idle.Do not be alarmed ,AMD engineers know what they are doing and it is fine.

AMD Ryzem 3800X 1933Mhz FCLK with timings/voltages/auto overclock
 
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wow thanks so much for this super overview!!!
Question about memory though... shouldn't we have the 3800/1900 Limit instead of 3866 for the "perfect ratio" with IF?

I've been trying to get the 3800 but i can't ... need to try loosening my timings more ( using Dram calc ).
My post gets stuck at code 07 every single time i try IF at 1900 with 3800 memory :(
 
The only limits in computers is what your gear can run at and 3866Mhz is fine as any other Ram speed.Well to tell you the truth,Ryzen memory is not as important as one may think to everyone.
CL16 3733Mhz is an awesome setting for Ryzen Ram.The trick to Ryzen Ram is setting tight stable Ram timings,when this is done correctly then just about any set of Ram will work fine.

IF you have the best CPU and best GPU and are running FHD resolutions or lower in PC gaming then ram choice can make a difference in some game from 0%-20% in FPS.When running normal everyday working mans mid tier CPU and GPU at FHD and lower does not make much of a difference.

Now if your like me and play games at higher than 1920x1080 and have normal CPU and GPU then adjusting Ram timings is the way to go,even latency does not matter .So if someone has some knowledge and google skills,they could adjust ram timings instead of trading in there DDR4 3000Mhz Ram and save some cash ,they could put extra money towards GPU and profit in FPS.

Since you have DDR4 4500Mhz your good there.Adjusting all Ram timings tighter is the way to go.Even if you game at lower resolutions like 1920x1080 there will not be much difference between tight timings on 3200Mhz compared to tight timings on 3733Mhz in 98% of games.

Anyway testing I have done in the past on Ryzen at 2560x1440 Resolution for gaming,opps I do not even know what you do with your 3800X but this can be for anyone.

♦ 2133Mhz (16GB)CL10-10-10-10-21-Lantency 93.8ns
♦ 2400mhz (16GB)CL10-11-11-11-21-Lantency 87.4ns
♦ 2933mhz (16GB)CL12-14-13-13-26-Lantency 75.3ns
♦ 3200mhz (16GB)CL14-14-14-14-28-Lantency 71.0ns
♦ 3733mhz (16GB)CL16-17-16-16-34-Lantency 64.9ns
♦ 4000mhz (16GB)CL16-18-17-17-36 -(memory clock 2000x2/fabric clock 1800x2/memory controller 1000x2)-Lantency 74.9ns
♦ 4200mhz (16GB)CL16-18-17-17-36 -(memory clock 2100x2/fabric clock 1800x2/memory controller 1050x2)-Lantency 73.1ns

RAM TIMINGS USED FULL Adjusted manual timings NO AUTO settings







Chart Gaming 2560x1440

 
Thanks :)

My computer is my "jack of all trades".

I work and game on it ... plus netflix, youtube and similar of course ...

So, i was able to get 3733 16-16-16-32 with 67.4ns latency.
I may be able to squeeze something more, but i tried to tight the timings a little more and i got no post ...
 
You are fine with the Ram the way it is then,I just seems to me that you are not experienced in how the Ram works and that is fine.Just by looking at the Ram you own ,that Ram is capable of tighter timings no problem and could do CL14 3733Mhz but again it is not needed for your Ryzen and do not waste your time chasing tighter timings for zero or little 1% performance gains.Your system is fine.

Here I had Enhanced mode 4 on in this game and streamed for 1.5 hrs with boost on 3800X up to 4650Mhz


Then again you could always try BCLK overclocking for better boost.I am just messing with you ,you are fine the way your computer is now.

My 3800X boost
49391171163_62f3eed2f4_h.jpg
 
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Woodsta888 said:
@gerardfraser How you get your Boost Overide CPU to 300Mhz in Ryzen Master?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
MSI Motherboards can be manually set up to 500Mhz on Boost Override,the settings in screenshot is auto overclock enhanced mode 4 which set 300Mhz on Boost Override.
MAX setting with Boost Override 500Mhz would be 5050Mhz for CPU Clock.

MSI Motherboard also have ECO modes of 45 watt and up. LN2 support of up to 4096 PPT/TDC/EDC/.Even though I have the cheapest X470 Motherboard it works great and has all features you need for good performance.
 
Gerard, thank you for your contribution to this topic.
Yeah, I must admit, memory is not my forte ... I just started with this. Until now it was just XMP profiles :) I still don't really understand the relations between all the timings.
CL14 for me is not possible, but again, since I don't know the relations of the Timmins, it may be possible just by tweaking some secondary or tertiary timings, dunno ... :D

Do you have any advice on how to start that "quest"?

In terms of OC, i was used to Intel and more precisely, the 4790K. For AMD I'm completely lost and sailing on unknown waters :)
 
Sure no problem,If you want something quick and dirty to try to get you to 3800Mhz
Suggestion for Ram Download DRAM Calculator for Ryzen with Thaiphoon burner

In thaiphoon burner export your XMP profile with complete HTML Report and save delays in nanoseconds to desktop or somewhere you would remember.
Then import the XMP complete HTML Report to DRAM Calculator for Ryzen

Then in the DRAM Calculator for Ryzen pick the settings you want and try them,they are meant as a guide. Print out setting from main and advanced or write them down.

In BIOS set everything to optimized defaults and restart back in to BIOS.

In BIOS input the settings from the DRAM Calculator for Ryzen-depending on what settings you picked voltages may be different.
Disable-PBO for now,can re-enable anytime
Set DRAM voltage to 1.5v for now ,can lower later
cLDO VDDG - 0.950v Most likely your auto settings set this to high,use recommended setting from DRAM Calculator for Ryzen
cLDO VDDP - 0.900v Most likely your auto settings set this to high,use recommended setting from DRAM Calculator for Ryzen
SOC - 1.12v -Set to max from DRAM Calculator for Ryzen for now.I use lower than max on my system for stability.
DDR4-Set to 3800Mhz or whatever you picked in DRAM Calculator for Ryzen
The memory clock (mclk), the memory controller clock (uclk), and the infinity fabric clock (fclk) all need to be synced for best results.
So in BIOS set fclk-1900Mhz or half of whatever you picked in DRAM Calculator for Ryzen
So in BIOS set mclk=uclk
When set the mclk:uclk:fclk should be set to ratio1:1:1 for best results.

Give these a try without touching anything else in your BIOs and see how it goes.


Check this out.Follow links also in thread.May be interesting to some.

Demystifying Memory Overclocking on Ryzen: OC Guidelines and Explaining Subtimings, Resistances, Voltages, and More!
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ahs5a2/demystifying_memory_overclocking_on_ryzen_oc/
 
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