Give me some idea what top notch graphics look like...

MorningView · 5 Aug 2006 at 19:04

Hey guys,

I'm looking at getting a new system in the coming months and considering getting back into gaming, but the only gaming on a PC I've seen's far from cutting edge.

Just wondering if anyone with a shiney new card fancies making the most of the bragging rights and taking a few screenshots in-game. Just to give me an idea whether its worth persuing or just to go for a 360.

Cheers,
Matt

gord · 5 Aug 2006 at 19:08

Either get a 360 now, or wait for the DX10 generation, which means youll be waiting for Windows Vista which is January i believe.

If you want next gen top notch graphics look like check out crysis. Its the reason people will upgrade to DX10.

LoadsaMoney · 5 Aug 2006 at 19:31

gord said:
Either get a 360 now, or wait for the DX10 generation, which means youll be waiting for Windows Vista which is January i believe.

If you want next gen top notch graphics look like check out crysis. Its the reason people will upgrade to DX10.

Crysis has so far been running on an x1900 in DX9, i wont be upgrading to DX10 for it, my x1800 XT will run it fine in DX9 mode, besides it will mainly be a DX9 game, it will just have a couple of (if that) DX10 features bolted on, like better looking water, or lighting, can't see how better looking water is gona be worth the £350+ for a DX10 card and the £200+ for Vista to run it in DX10, £550 just so a game has better looking water, or lighting, no thanks.

Ill be missing R600/G80 out me, no point getting them if the DX9 card i already have still throws DX9 games around, and as i said a couple of DX10 features bolted on is not worth the price of the new card, or Vista, by the time DX10 is used more, and worth having R600/G80 will be a distant memory, as loads of new cards would have been and gone, cards are coming out every couple of months, DX10 games are not gona flood out, we may see about 5x DX9 games with a couple of DX10 features bolted on by Christmas 07 if were lucky, and how many new cards will have passed by then, exactly.

LukeManUK · 5 Aug 2006 at 19:36

360 on a HDTV is real nice, I don't think PC will have anything that will beat Gears of War / Rainbow Six Vegas on a HDTV in terms of graphics. (this year)

Gerard · 5 Aug 2006 at 19:41

LukeManUK said:
360 on a HDTV is real nice, I don't think PC will have anything that will beat Gears of War / Rainbow Six Vegas on a HDTV in terms of graphics. (this year)

Personally i think crysis will spank both of them with ease, last i heard its slated for november.

Naffa · 5 Aug 2006 at 20:36

Gerard said:
Personally i think crysis will spank both of them with ease, last i heard its slated for november.

That I highly doubt. (About the release date).

gord · 5 Aug 2006 at 20:40

LoadsaMoney said:
Crysis has so far been running on an x1900 in DX9, i wont be upgrading to DX10 for it, my x1800 XT will run it fine in DX9 mode, besides it will mainly be a DX9 game, it will just have a couple of (if that) DX10 features bolted on, like better looking water, or lighting, can't see how better looking water is gona be worth the £350+ for a DX10 card and the £200+ for Vista to run it in DX10, £550 just so a game has better looking water, or lighting, no thanks.

Ill be missing R600/G80 out me, no point getting them if the DX9 card i already have still throws DX9 games around, and as i said a couple of DX10 features bolted on is not worth the price of the new card, or Vista, by the time DX10 is used more, and worth having R600/G80 will be a distant memory, as loads of new cards would have been and gone, cards are coming out every couple of months, DX10 games are not gona flood out, we may see about 5x DX9 games with a couple of DX10 features bolted on by Christmas 07 if were lucky, and how many new cards will have passed by then, exactly.

I dont know where you are getting this bolted on information. When has crytek said that DX10 affects are purely bolted on extras? As far as i have been aware crysis is DX10 with scaling capabilities for DX9 systems although the DX9 systems they have been using to demo it have been Crossfire X1900XTs and they commented its still a bit choppy. Of course thats without optimisations but still. Plus they mention Vista will bring speed increases to all games really as Mirco$oft have rewritten how drivers interact for better performance..

LoadsaMoney · 5 Aug 2006 at 20:49

Yes its DX10, but Crysis also works in DX9, so really the DX10 effects are bolted on, and there will only be a couple as said, and yes you will need a DX10 card and Vista for those little extras.

All DX10 games are going to work on DX9 (for a long time to come), but if you have a DX10 card, and Vista then you will get the extra couple of DX10 effects, so you may as well say they are just bolted on, and as i said why waste £350+ on a card, and £200 or whatever it will be for Vista just for a couple of extra's, may as well just play them in DX9 till DX10 is used more and worth having then get a DX10 card, as by that time loads will have been and gone.

I can only see DX10 cards being of benefit to those that dont have high end DX9 cards, ppl with the x1800's, x1900's, 7900's etc... would not see a benefit as their cards are still throwing DX9 games around, so why would they go for the R600/G80 just because they are faster at DX9, but have a couple of DX10 effects as well, certainly not worth it if your high end DX9 card is runnning the DX9 stuff fast enough as said, i wont be shelling out over £500 just so i can play a game with better water, sod that id expect moe than that for over £500+.

Naffa · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:06

gord said:
I dont know where you are getting this bolted on information. When has crytek said that DX10 affects are purely bolted on extras? As far as i have been aware crysis is DX10 with scaling capabilities for DX9 systems.

I've been under than impression as well.

LoadsaMoney · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:09

so you think the whole game will change its graphics if its on a DX10 card, i cant see it myself as said be more like the water will look better as its on a dx10 card, or the lighting and thats it.

Lests see when DX10 cards, and Crysis are out, lets see it played on an x1900 in DX9, and then on R600/G80 in DX10, and i bet the differances are nothing, i bet you'll hardly be able to tell.

oweneades · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:14

Well really you have to ask yourself (OP) if there anything YOU like coming out for the 360 or the pc for that fact to warrent a purchase of either.

If there are games that interest you on the 360 then its a definate option.

Of course if you like the look of some of the upcoming pc games then I would reccomend in maybe building a nice basic conroe (6300 or 6400) system with the bargintastic X1800XT 256mb now rather than waiting and shelling out aload of money for DX10 hardware and vista just to play from what I Can make out 1 game that will run fine on pretty much any high end DX9 machine anyway.

Also IIRC DX10 doesn't really add much new in the way of graphical effects it just improves on DX9 in terms of efficiency and performance. (IE crysis will run faster at the same settings in DX10 than in DX9)

Darkwave · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:16

From what I've read, DirectX 10 will have huge improvements for things like geometric shaders, and shaders in general (shader model 4.0 to be exact) so you can expect to see huge IQ leaps in terms of things like water and other reflective surfaces, realistic motion blurring, much more realistic volumetrics for things like fog/clouds/smoke, and much more realistic looking textures and surfaces due to improvements in bump mapping and parallax mapping.

Supposedly, when run on Vista and in DirectX 10 mode, Crysis will support a whole bunch of these features and DirectX 9 users will be missing out on a huge amount of eye candy. I still won't be upgrading my hardware and OS until this time next year though, I can't justify spending £400 when the hardware I buy will be old hat before more DirectX 10 games are out.

MorningView · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:22

oweneades said:
Well really you have to ask yourself (OP) if there anything YOU like coming out for the 360 or the pc for that fact to warrent a purchase of either.

If there are games that interest you on the 360 then its a definate option.

Of course if you like the look of some of the upcoming pc games then I would reccomend in maybe building a nice basic conroe (6300 or 6400) system with the bargintastic X1800XT 256mb now rather than waiting and shelling out aload of money for DX10 hardware and vista just to play from what I Can make out 1 game that will run fine on pretty much any high end DX9 machine anyway.

Also IIRC DX10 doesn't really add much new in the way of graphical effects it just improves on DX9 in terms of efficiency and performance. (IE crysis will run faster at the same settings in DX10 than in DX9)

I must say I'm more tempted by the idea of a PC rather than the 360, mainly owing to how expensive console games are and that an HD tv isnt looking likely any time soon.

I'd be happy going for DX9 for my needs. On release I'll be very hesitant to upgrade to Vista anyway since I've audio gear (particularly a MOTU 828mkII) thats very particular when it comes to the OS you run it on.

Cheers for the tips.

Matt

LoadsaMoney · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:23

Úlfhednar said:
Supposedly, when run on Vista and in DirectX 10 mode, Crysis will support a whole bunch of these features and DirectX 9 users will be missing out on a huge amount of eye candy. I still won't be upgrading my hardware and OS until this time next year though, I can't justify spending £400 when the hardware I buy will be old hat before more DirectX 10 games are out.

I cant see it being that much of a change, not until DX10 is used more id have thought, and thats eons away as yet, but we'll see when its released, but still thats only one game, the rest of the DX10 games coming might not look any differant to what they do on DX9 cards, so still 1x game is not going to be worth the £500+ for the card, and OS to run it in DX10. may as well wait until DX10 is used more and get the cards that are out then, which wont be R600/G80 as they'll be old hat, just like a few cards after em.

Darkwave · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:28

LoadsaMoney said:
I cant see it being that much of a change, not until DX10 is used more id have thought, and thats eons away as yet, but we'll see when its released, but still thats only one game, the rest of the DX10 games coming might not look any differant to what they do on DX9 cards, so still 1x game is not going to be worth the £500+ for the card, and OS to run it in DX10. may as well wait until DX10 is sued more and get the cards that are out then, which wont be R600/G80 as they'll be old hat, just like a few cards after em.

I see it as being a huge change, personally, but I just think it'll take a long while to get through its teething stage. From what I've read about DX10, it'll be as big a difference as the change from DX8 to DX9 as far as features and IQ go.

I do know one thing, I am sure looking forward to finding out.

LoadsaMoney · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:29

MatthewForshaw said:
I must say I'm more tempted by the idea of a PC rather than the 360, mainly owing to how expensive console games are and that an HD tv isnt looking likely any time soon.

I'd be happy going for DX9 for my needs. On release I'll be very hesitant to upgrade to Vista anyway since I've audio gear (particularly a MOTU 828mkII) thats very particular when it comes to the OS you run it on.

Cheers for the tips.

Matt

Yeah DX9 has got absolute ages left yet, got a 360 here, and never touched it for about 2 months now, gona get rid.

Tommy B · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:29

Ati's "Toy Shop Demo" just about pawns any game available on the 360 or the PC.

Darkwave · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:29

Tommy B said:
Ati's "Toy Shop Demo" just about pawns any game available on the 360 or the PC.

LoadsaMoney · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:33

Úlfhednar said:
I see it as being a huge change, personally, but I just think it'll take a long while to get through its teething stage. From what I've read about DX10, it'll be as big a difference as the change from DX8 to DX9 as far as features and IQ go.

I do know one thing, I am sure looking forward to finding out.

Yeah me to, but i think the huge change will be a while off yet, i can't see the huge change being right at the start.

Saying that though, even if the change is huge right at the start, the games won't flood out still, there'll still be loads of cards been and gone before theres a decent amount of games with the huge changes, if Crysis has got a huge amount of changes in DX10 its till not worth £500+ as its only one game, and when will the next game be along that has the huge changes, we'll be lucky to see 5 games by christmas, and the amount of cards that will have been and gone then will have been stacks.

I cant see me going DX10 for at least a year, and i cant see many DX10 games by then, so im not gona miss much, but id have missed loads of cards though.

Tommy B · 5 Aug 2006 at 21:51

Úlfhednar said:

In terms of graphics obviously.

Making a game that involved that amount of detail and graphics (at present) would take years.