Good 'budget' subwoofer for modest 3.1 setup

[gailjon]

Hi all,
I am upgrading my small Yamaha WXA-50D and Monitor Audio Silver 1's to a modest 3.1 setup, replacing the LG HLX56S soundbar that I have been using for films. I have sourced a Marantz NR1509 to replace the Yammy.
I have manged to get a decently priced used Silver C150 centre and am now looking for a small subwoofer to boost LFE for films.
The LG had plenty of bass, a little boomy at times, but plenty of it. It has an 8" driver, ported to the front.
Would a similarly sized 'separates' sub offer the same bass or would it be better going for something larger?
I don't want a huge box, or the pictures to be shaken off the wall, just a nice level of bass that the speakers themselves can't replicate.
Any suggestions? Perhaps a MA Bronze w10?
I can get one of those for under £300 now which is in budget. (the less the better), and I dson't mind used/clearance, etc.

 

[gailjon]

Wow, thanks for the quick replies.
I had seen that BK were highly recommended and on ebay a Gemini 2 is only £211 (b grade).
That seems like a great deal. I like the fact that it is down firing and that it has decent controls.
Only thing now is Gemini or XLS200.

 

[gailjon]

If you can afford it, the XLS200.

That's my thoughts as well.
I want something small and compact but with enough oomph for when we watch films.
I especially like the opening scene of LOTR TFOTR when Sauron dies and the wave moves across the battlefield.
On the other hand, I also like some bass with music so it needs to be well controlled.

 

[gailjon]

Compared to the LG sub you're currently using, any (and I do mean any) of the BK subs or the MA W10 are in a completely different class.

Where the LG bangs its single-note bass and booms when the going gets a little complicated, the other subs will simply play. They won't sound strained. They'll play real notes so that the thud of stones catapulted at walls sound different from giant trolls falling in battle. What can occasionally trip up people is that it will be loud without sounding noticeably loud. By that I mean like driving a car with a big engine compare to one with a smaller engine. The LG is the small engine. To get anywhere it needs to be thrashed, so you're constantly aware of the engine noise and vibration. It's intrusive. With the big engine it just gets you up to speed without fuss. There's power in reserve, so much so that you end up going faster than expected until you're used to the effortless power delivery.

Your advice is spot on. I am looking forward to getting a new sub, either the Gemini or the 200. Pity I can't try before I buy!

 

[gailjon]

Room is about 5.5m x 4.5m but oas it is a general use family room, separate to the sitting room, we are only using it to watch family movies together we are not needing thunderous bass.

My front speakers are MA Silver 1's and MA Silver C150 centre and the amp is a Marantz 1509, none of which scream massive overkill.

I am tempted to just get the Gemini and see ho wit goes, at adding bass to my music and allowing us to watch films with some bass with them.

As I said, the LG sound bar was always strong enough for us, but a bit boomy at times and of course wasn't involved in stereo listening.

 

[gailjon]

Echo my point above, you do not want to go too small a sub. You'd only kick yourself if you had to mess about selling it in order to upgrade.

In that sized room, I'd say a BK XXLS400 would be perfect. There's a second hand one on eBay now for £350. If you didn't want a 400, I'd probably go with a P12, a Double Gem or finally an XLS200 in that order.

The reason the LG had plenty of bass is because it was tuned to a high frequency. It takes a lot more power to produce proper sub bass frequencies and moving to a proper subwoofer that's too small for your room will leave you disappointed after spending all that money. I have a 5x4m room and would go no lower than an XXLS400 personally, but then I do also run big front speakers. Remember, you can turn down a big sub but you can't turn up a small sub!

Buying a bigger sub now also gives you the headroom if you want to upgrade the speakers in the future. The Silver 1's can always be moved to the rear in a 5.1 setup

That's the danger - getting a pair of MA floorstanders and shifting furniture to fir the 1's at the rear. Then getting a pair of Monoliths just to add to the overall feel of the film!

I think the XLS200 will do for the moment...

 

[gailjon]

Deed done, ordered a white XLS200 from the BK ebay shop. Satin white to match centre speaker and AV unit.

Auto power off is not really an issue for me so much as quality of the sub itself although it would be nice to have.

Waiting for delivery is the tough part!

 

[gailjon]

BK have confirmed that the sub arrives today in all of its white gloriousness!

I have so far resisted running audyssey on the Marantz amp so will get it set into the corner of the room, tweak the dials and run that.

I have been looking at various videos regarding sun setup and seem to have some idea of what to start with and am hoping to get a real boost for stereo as well as films.

Looking forward to it.

 

[gailjon]

Remember to use high level and LFE

That was exactly what I was going to ask.

I see that REL rave about using high level and LFE at the same time and of course, the BK subs also have both inputs.

I can understand the LFE working with the surround codecs of the amp, setting the speakers to small. 80 hz crossover, etc and all fine.

However, when the amp plays stereo, automatically changing to stereo setting, what happens with speaker size, crossover, etc?

Do the speakers remain small and the crossover at 80h? Also, how does the sub know which input it is going top use? Can the amp be set to use LFE for films and high level for stereo?

 

[gailjon]

I see that when using the sub's high level input you should set the main speakers to large to ensure that the full signal is sent to the sub.

This is starting to get confusing.

 

[gailjon]

It has arrived and has been setup but there is a problem - a transformer hum when attached to the rca cable.
Remove the cable and the hum disappears.
I have tried different mains sockets, and had the cable attached from sub to amp completely separated from any other cables and potential interference but no change.
The hum is related to the low level gain as it gets louder when the gain is increased, and quieter when it is decreased.

 

[gailjon]

New shorter subwoofer cable and all well. No hum at all so I presume the supplied cable was not well shielded or was not grounding effectively on the amp end. It was rather loose whereas the new one has a nice tight connection.

Enjoying the new sub as it adds a lot of extra bass, enhancing both movies and music without overwhelming either.

One issue is that I seem to have to have the volume up quite high when listening through the amop compared to the TV's speakers.