Goodbye Macintosh?

It's not leagues behind at all - I'm not 'defending' apple - the specs and performance speaks for itself - its also not 'arm' it USED to be arm - then apple made their own design from it - its apple in house.

The specs and performance don't speak for itself at all - yes it's a fast chip by mobile phone standards, but it's in no way comparable to an x86/x64 processor in terms of computing power.

It also definitely is an ARM - it uses the ARM instruction set, and is based on a licensed ARM design. Yes Apple may have tweaked it and combined it with various other components to form the A11 SoC which is then fabbed by an external company, but at it's heart are ARM based processor cores.

I am merely confused as to your not believing factual info - also your putting WAY to much emphasis on the whole 'it was arm ported to x64' - as if its going to make some sort of massive difference - maybe a couple of %.

Ya basically talkin nonsense because no way geek bench running in apple/x64 mode etc will make say a 30% difference, at most single %

What factual info? One benchmark does not prove performance - when comparing GPUs or CPUs nobody considers a single benchmark to be acceptable, as it is too easy to cherry pick in order to show whatever results favour the author's bias.

The A11 used properly is in the same performance ball park as laptop intel chips - defo faster than AMD mobile chips by far (I use a ryzen desktop as my main rig)

If may seem faster for day to day tasks, but that's a result of Apple having full control of both the hardware and software - if you don't have to support 100's of different processors of different ages and capabilities (as Windows or Android both have to) then you can definitely optimise performance for a better user experience.


I don't care if apple, intel, AMD or santa made the chip, its performance is in i5/i7 territory - this is not my opinion - its complete scientific fact whether you wish to dismiss it or not, saying 'oh but the bench isnt believable' and ignoring it won't achieve anything - if Snap dragon made a similarly powerful chip id say the Snapdragon is hitting numbers similar to intel.

A12 will ruin the current gen intel mobile chips, without a doubt.

There is no scientific fact whatsoever. One benchmark proves nothing - come back to me when a mobile phone can mine Monero or other crypto currency at an acceptable rate, perform Raytracing, fold proteins or any other computationally intensive task
 
The specs and performance don't speak for itself at all - yes it's a fast chip by mobile phone standards, but it's in no way comparable to an x86/x64 processor in terms of computing power.

It also definitely is an ARM - it uses the ARM instruction set, and is based on a licensed ARM design. Yes Apple may have tweaked it and combined it with various other components to form the A11 SoC which is then fabbed by an external company, but at it's heart are ARM based processor cores.

What factual info? One benchmark does not prove performance - when comparing GPUs or CPUs nobody considers a single benchmark to be acceptable, as it is too easy to cherry pick in order to show whatever results favour the author's bias.

If may seem faster for day to day tasks, but that's a result of Apple having full control of both the hardware and software - if you don't have to support 100's of different processors of different ages and capabilities (as Windows or Android both have to) then you can definitely optimise performance for a better user experience.

There is no scientific fact whatsoever. One benchmark proves nothing - come back to me when a mobile phone can mine Monero or other crypto currency at an acceptable rate, perform Raytracing, fold proteins or any other computationally intensive task

The problem is with this debate is - I see numbers, generated on software with known code that proves its calculating through put of data, so the 'one benchmark' is valid.

VS

Your unsound word based reasoning - sure you have some minor/subtle points, because I have presented the evidence (indeed the rest of the world says its comparable performance) and you alone are simply replying 'One benchmark does not prove performance' because that ONLY data we have, disagrees with your personal POV.

Now, I get what your saying, hell I have a masters degree in I.T. - I'm not thick, you make some points, but the degree to which your points are valid is much less than you might be hoping.

Ironically 'Monero or other crypto currency at an acceptable rate, perform Raytracing' is indeed highly hardware specific - and is known to run much slower on intel desktop x64 coding, hence why specific hardware/graphics cards run it better.

Let me remind you, I am ONLY comparing A11 vs Intel mobile - if your running your examples id tell you to run OpenCL hardware!!!

So sir - crypto currency/Raytracing is pointless on intel, nevermind A11.

For running general code - i.e. a processor/CPU, they are benching SIMILARLY - YES(!) its one bench, BUT its running the SAME bench and has PROVEN to be a comparable data set - all other data in geekbench lines up as expected (i.e. running a gulftown intel core vs a sandy bridge vs coffee lake) - all lines up as one would expect in order - the data becomes valid because of 1000's of data points.

Bearing that in mind - A11 is benching ball park i5/i7 mobile chips, faster than gulftown, faster than sandy.

That sir, is why, your comments are just hearsay, and numbers speak for themselves.
 
Majority of people like to consider more than 1 viewpoint (e.g. set of benchmarks) to rule out any bias.

I personally wouldn't go and see a movie or buy a video game without reading a couple of different reviews, in case the reviewers don't like the actors, franchise or genre or have some other bias.

Crypto coins work fine on CPUs (indeed Ryzen and multi core xeons are as fast as GPUs at certain coins), over 400H/s easily achievable whereas Arm based processors last time I checked were single or double digit figures at best.

Regardless we'll agree to disagree then as this has already gone way off topic.
 
Majority of people like to consider more than 1 viewpoint (e.g. set of benchmarks) to rule out any bias.

I personally wouldn't go and see a movie or buy a video game without reading a couple of different reviews, in case the reviewers don't like the actors, franchise or genre or have some other bias.

Crypto coins work fine on CPUs (indeed Ryzen and multi core xeons are as fast as GPUs at certain coins), over 400H/s easily achievable whereas Arm based processors last time I checked were single or double digit figures at best.

Regardless we'll agree to disagree then as this has already gone way off topic.

Well, we can see how A12 benches in that benchmark and compare to thousands of other data points.........sure we need another bench - but, its a reasonable guide.

Anyways more on topic

Word I heard on the net was, there was talk of an 'A' series chip in the imac pro - i don't know if its true - or that future desktops would have A series co processors along with 8-18 core xeons/CPU's etc - to 'sort of' replace the bios/mac bios - to take care of simple things like desktop use, browsing the net - making it MUCH harder to hack and MUCH harder to have hackintosh in future.

The idea being also its a super super super low power system in day to day tasks and free's up the bigger CPU for hardcore intensive tasks.

Would be VERY interesting and a viable transition period.
 
I wonder if they did switch to Axx processors whether it would be the death of the Mac anyway. Out of the door would go Windows with Boot Camp. Then again, I wonder what % of Mac users even know what that is. It might upset power users but maybe not as bad as I first thought.
 
The bugs evident in macOS clearly stem from it being a side project at Apple these days.

Well I've read about the serious "root" login bug in High Sierra but I thought macOS was widely regarded as 10x better than Windows? Folks only reboot their Macs every few weeks/months not like Windows with every other day. So surely it can't be that buggy?
 
Well I've read about the serious "root" login bug in High Sierra but I thought macOS was widely regarded as 10x better than Windows? Folks only reboot their Macs every few weeks/months not like Windows with every other day. So surely it can't be that buggy?

Well windows isn't that bad - I rebooted mine once every 3 months maybe, but still going to see how MacOS does, mostly for integration.
 
The reason why Macs won't be quite ready to move over to ARM yet is do to processor architecture. They aren't as great in the wider general compute areas like Intels chips are, they have been designed to be great at what they are required for and nothing more.
 
Well I've read about the serious "root" login bug in High Sierra but I thought macOS was widely regarded as 10x better than Windows? Folks only reboot their Macs every few weeks/months not like Windows with every other day. So surely it can't be that buggy?

I tried a Mac recently just to experience OSX. I have now sold it. I was quite surprised to find that in fact for me personally, Windows 10 is now pretty much just as good in most respects, and actually better in others; no doubt there are areas where OSX is better - latency is one thing that pops to mind, scaling is another, but in the end for me, Windows was just a better fit - as much as it pained me to say it as I'm no great fan of Microsoft. So 10x better is probably pushing it. More like they are both very good these days.
 
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