Google busted

[Dirk Diggler]

I've decided to edit the OP in an attempt to ward off the usual keyboard warrior approach that's now way too frequent in this section of the forum.

I'm genuinely interested in what steps people take to protect their privacy with their gadgets, particularly your phone. Please share your tactics (if any).

Spoiler: Original OP

On my Google feed today, I have noticed two articles that are quite bespoke. For example one is this article: https://www.dekkobird.com/how-to-paint-kitchen-cabinets-my-own-kitchen-refresh/

My wife is currently painting kitchen cupboards (it's a tactic, she wants a new kitchen and thinks I was born yesterday ). I'm away from home right now, and the communication about the kitchen refresh has been purely pictures of her work sent over WhatsApp and verbal conversation, again using WhatsApp.

There was another article in the feed today, and again the subject was definitely only discussed verbally last night via WhatsApp. I am not impressed with this, it goes beyond privacy violation IMO.

How can I address this? Amend settings that I'm unaware of? Switch away from Android?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Sorry

You should be with that response, TBF.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

By default the WhatsApp pictures get saved to your Gallery, which is where Google is seeing them from.

In WhatsApp you need to turn off 'Media visibility'

I've got it set that way already, plus the second conversation did not involve pictures. Trust me, I'm no conspiracy nut.

ETA: thanks for the genuine response by the way, I appreciate you weren't accusing me of being a conspiracy nut.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

What if the AI is listening in on us, but Google do not know it's doing this ?

It's obvious that there is some snooping that goes on that isn't publicly broadcast to users but how much of that is down to Google knowingly doing this to either test their AI capabilities or just because they can vs their AI going rogue is unknown, it's certainly not the first time someone has posted having a verbal conversation about something and then suddenly ads are popping up related to that conversation

I used to think people were getting that the wrong way round; they were seeing adverts and then subconsciously discussing them and then thinking the discussion happened first. Obviously recent personal experience has taught me otherwise.

Genuine question: in general, is Apple any better? I would consider switching, but I've never owned an iPhone so not sure it would improve the situation?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't really care.
They could easily have it all.

24hrs ago I would have said that, and I wouldn't criticise anyone who does. For me now, there was a personal private conversation took place with no photos or web searches involved and now I'm seeing targeted ads on the subject (not the penis enlargement ones, I've been getting them for years and still don't know how they know )

It's really made me think.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Is it not likely that your wife googled paint suitable for painting kitchen cupboards?

It's highly probable, but she would have used her phone to do it and the ad appeared on my phone which is hundreds of miles away from her.

Put your theory to the test, randomly start talking about dogfood (if you don't own a dog) if the adbets pop up then you may have a case.

Probably the best suggestion, to be honest. I'll be calling her tonight but I won't discuss dog food because I just typed that! I'll think of something random.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't get any of this since stripping my Android of all Google products and moving over to open source alternatives. I also use an app that blocks all other apps from taking control of the microphone.

What apps are you using?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

This happens to me quite often, I usually think I’m imagining it and then forget about it.

Not being on things like Facebook and Instagram is a good start if you are security/privacy conscious as I think there have been a few “software bugs” found that were dubious (on top of the fact your life is visible for everybody to see anyway)

Yea, I haven't used Facebook or Twitter etc.. for a long time, years. Google is the only company I use for services like that as I have Android phone & tablet, with the exception of WhatsApp which is the only other service I use.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Facebook own Whatsapp.

I know, and Kraft owns lots of brands too but it doesn't mean I'm eating Toblerone when I'm drinking my Kool-Aid.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

@bignev72 thanks for sharing, it seems to have been a very similar experience to mine.

Easy solution ref the above, just buy Apple products.

This is what I'm considering; owning an iPhone for the first time. I might also ditch the Android tablet for an iPad eventually.

Analysing conversations is a step too far for me, it's definitely crossed a line and I couldn't give two ***** about small print.

ETA: you've got to laugh...

 

[Dirk Diggler]

So after our discussion in this thread about talking about something to see if it would appear in my Google feed, we decided to talk about something we hadn't discussed previously, or exchanged images, or searched for online etc.

We decided to talk about buying a new car. And 48hrs later, here it is, the smoking gun as far as I'm concerned.

Spoiler: Smoking Gun

 

[Dirk Diggler]

How about something a bit less common...

Try talk about a really rare holiday destination or rare animal - I won't mention names here so as not to skew anything.

I'll try to remember, but in the meantime I'll keep an eye on the iPhone 12 when it comes along. I CBA trawling through small print and endless security options; if Apple is viewed as generally better then I'll switch to them and try to wean myself off Google apps & products.

This hasn't got me hiding under the duvet or reaching for the tinfoil hat, it's just opened my eyes a little bit and influenced my future purchases to be thinking a bit more about privacy.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Back OT, The Gadget show covered this subject last week and showed exactly what is going on (third party cookies) with surprise targeted advertising.

Most online services buried within their T&C's will allow some third party use of your data.. this is moved around using third party cookies and it's exactly how typing anything in on WhatsApp can get to facebook, google, apple, etc..

What prompted the OP was the realisation that this is now going beyond third party cookies and similar tracking analysis, to the point where private verbal conversations are being recorded and analysed.

I've underlined what I consider to be the key word; private. Is a verbal conversation via an App provider even private any more? Was it ever?

I haven't tested whether a normal conversation using the phone itself is being recorded, or even if a conversation is being recorded when the phone is in a bag or pocket. I don't have the inclination to go to that level of investigation but I honestly do wonder where this will end up.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Nvm

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't see much difference to scanning your search terms, shopping habits on third party sites or analysing any image you upload (I swear google do this) and generating marketing information stored against you and most people seem fine with that, why would realtime voice analysis be radically 'different'??

Because it's a private phone conversation, you could be talking about anything. Would you be happy for Google to analyze photos of your wife's new pubic landing strip that she decided to share with you? Her new boob job? You would surely take steps to ensure those private photos and videos are shared without uploading to Google servers? How can you have the same control over your verbal conversations which are much more likely to randomly enter the realms of privacy, if Google is recording and analysing everything you say into your phone?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I did a video call on WhatsApp with my wife and daughter a couple of hours ago. Now, I've just hit the search bar in Chrome to type something and I've got two predetermined choices: the movie my daughter was watching during the conversation and the place my wife is going to for dinner tomorrow.

None of these things were manually searched for by me, nor pictures shared. There's no doubt that the verbal conversation is being filtered for keywords. Google's advertising tactics have gone beyond ridiculous now.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Simple case of our individual Youtube accounts being seen as always using the same internet connection, and cross-linking recommendations.

It's not some clandestine crap about my phone's mic overhearing her videos and transcribing keywords, it is simply the algorithms identifying that our devices and accounts all live in the same household.

She's connected to our home WiFi, I'm connected to a subsea fibre in the middle of the North Atlantic.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

The point is, you have been connected to that same home WiFi in the past, probably enough times for them to make the connection that you as a user or set of devices are linked to it, even when you aren't there right now.

That makes zero sense.

It seems to be quite the coincidence that I'm seeing ads for things we speak about on WhatsApp when I'm hundreds of miles away, yet I don't see any ads for all the shoes, bags, clothes etc.. that she constantly searches for on all her devices. She's not seeing any ads for GPUs, OLED TVs, games and all the other searches that I input.

Yet, I see an ad for the restaurant she just told me she's going to tomorrow. I get an ad for the Disney movie my daughter was watching during the call.

It doesn't add up.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Thinking that Google has the computational power to transcribe every voice/video call made and then run keyword searches for every one of their clients to find matches doesn't add up.

Of course it adds up; how could they know that you said, "Hey Google", if they didn't analyse every word?

Also, are you trying to say that they were able to ascertain a film playing in the background from audio alone, or did you ask what she was watching?

I asked what she was watching because she was dancing around the living room. I also asked my wife where she was going tonight with her friend for a meal.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Occam's Razor would be that said movie was searched for, and that search history was linked back to your accounts by way of shared cookies and IDs, I gave a pretty clear example with my wife and my experience this week with Youtube.

I know, and I replied. Why isn't my wife seeing ads for GPUs & OLED TVs? Why am I not seeing adverts for Next & Boots? Why is it only the verbal conversation that's providing this shared ad experience?