Government to stay with IE6 :/

[SiriusB]

http://www.hmg.gov.uk/epetition-responses/petition-view.aspx?epref=ie6upgrade

Why is our government so useless with IT?

They say that rolling out IE8 would take months and cost an arm and a leg - being careful to point out it is the taxpayer's arms and legs of course.

IE8 was released in March 2009 - that is almost 18 months worth of time they could have use to update their web applications/upgrade. Not to mention the two BETA's released in 2008. I think it is a bit worrying they are hoping other measures will protect them. Google got their arse handed to them due to IE6, what makes our government so sure about themselves?

As a Network Admin I break out into a cold sweat when I go near an out of date machine. It is horrible to think there could be hundreds or even thousands of government machines whirring away with obsolete crap on them.

It has already been shown they can't be trusted with sensitive data, why should we trust them over their security measures to mitigate their use of IE6?

 

[MarcLister]

Madness. It might be our money but if something goes wrong due to all the Government computers only having IE6 and not IE8 I wonder if it might cost a bit more to fix each problem then?

It might cost £x million now to upgrade to IE8 but it could cost lots, lots more if some private or financial data gets lost or stolen, in that someone might sue the Government department responsible for losing data.

I can understand that the Government, or should we say the Civil Service (?), can't always upgrade to the latest browsers just like that, but they should be obliged to keep our data secure and I just fear for the first theft, or loss of etc, data that can be put down to IE6 issues.

 

[Temi_D]

How can it cost money to upgrade to IE8? Isn't it free? Then again I'm not an admin so I have no Idea how these things work.

 

[Lydzor]

I seriously don't understand why people cling to IE6 when there are so many better browsers available nowadays. I keep telling my mother to swap to Firefox or something at least secure, but she won't have it. Must be the fear of change.

 

[MarcLister]

How can it cost money to upgrade to IE8? Isn't it free? Then again I'm not an admin so I have no Idea how these things work.

I think its the cost of the tech staff's time to actually do the upgrades. I doubt we live in a country where the Civil Service has ICT staff that can do deployed updates.

Then any changes in how IE6 and IE8 work need to be smoothed over so that web apps aren't broken. Like you I'm not a network admin so I've no idea of the costs involved but I bet some Civil Service idiot would bring up the costs of training staff on the new IE version.

 

[Lanz]

This was from a July 2009 article.

Some departments have already begun transferring from IE6, according to replies to Watson — although all who mentioned an alternative browser said they plan to stick with Microsoft. International Development already uses IE7 and is evaluating IE8, and Environment Food and Rural Affairs has also moved to IE7.

Home Office minister Phil Woolas told Watson that his department, the UK Border Agency and the Criminal Records Bureau are planning to upgrade from IE6 in February 2010. The Identity and Passport Service is due to move to IE7 in mid-2010.

Foreign and Commonwealth Office minister Chris Bryant said that 57 percent of its networked computers had moved to IE7 by the end of June 2009, and the department expects to update the rest by end of May 2010. Department for Work and Pensions minister Jim Knight said his department plans to upgrade from IE6 to a more recent version by the end of this year.

Transport minister Chris Mole said his department moved to IE7 last year, while most of its agencies are either moving or working on moves away from IE6 — although the Highways Agency and Vehicle and Operator Services Agency have no plans to do so.

Justice minister Michael Wills said his department and its agencies were either moving already or planning moves. Culture, Media and Sport plans to complete its move to IE7 by the end of August, while Children, Schools and Families expects to transfer from IE6 during 2010-11.

Other departments including health, business and energy said they planned to end use of IE6 but had not decided when and how. However, Communities and Local Government minister Shahid Malik said his department has no plans to end its use, and would do so only when "the benefits for doing so outweigh any disbenefit or cost".

 

[Lanz]

Its not the cost of installing it, its just that a lot of internal portals and apps dont like anything other than IE6, and it would take money and resources to upgrade the apps.

 

[K.C. Leblanc]

Its not the cost of installing it, its just that a lot of internal portals and apps dont like anything other than IE6, and it would take money and resources to upgrade the apps.

I would suspect this is mostly the case.

The other possibility is they've still got a lot of systems using windows 2000.

 

[Randomface74]

They spent money on custom web based systems that only work in IE6. I presume fixing those systems is not an option, so they're trying to avoid building new systems from scratch, at a cost to the taxpayer.

 

[Schnippzle]

I work for the Royal Liverpool University Hospital, and we have just started rolling out IE7. The main reason for this is that national applications don't support it, and they are a requirement.... unfortunately. It's all a massive ball-ache, especially when the project managers are about as technical as a spunge.

 

[SiriusB]

I know why they stick with IE6 due to their web applications, but they have known for years and years that IE6 is on its way out. Why have they made no moves to update their systems so they aren't relying on IE6?

What is anyone doing running software that can't apparently be updated on software that is woefully out of date? It is good to see that not all government departments are clinging to IE6.

As for spending money on upgrading their software, that's a laugh. They can chuck 12 billion quid at a failed NHS project but can't handle upgrading a browser?

 

[xiphrex]

They convince themselves there is a security risk with new software and so it takes years and loads of money to update anything.

The hospital I work at has only just recently moved from a dos-style program for checking test results to a real windows program where you can use a mouse in. And guess what? The 'new' program still sucks and is a java applet basically.

 

[Biohazard]

I think its the cost of the tech staff's time to actually do the upgrades. I doubt we live in a country where the Civil Service has ICT staff that can do deployed updates.

Then any changes in how IE6 and IE8 work need to be smoothed over so that web apps aren't broken. Like you I'm not a network admin so I've no idea of the costs involved but I bet some Civil Service idiot would bring up the costs of training staff on the new IE version.

Since IT is outsourced to the private sector mainly, I doubt many 'idiots' in the civil service would have to concern themselves too much with this anymore.

What the government is making refference to is the large number of eCustomer/Online operations it undertakes, at a considerable startup expense due to terrible procurement/design. Spending any more money on computer systems and updates at present is completely out of the question given what was spent over the last 10 years.

Seeing if these various systems work would entail significant private consultant use and departmental user acceptance testing again.

I also don't see the major concerns from outsiders about the internal use of software. Anything communicated with or within the GSI is pretty secure.

 

[Destination]

I don't quite understand this, surely every govt dept has some techs within it, in every office in every town.
I'd bet many of them have already rolled out the upgrade as part of the windows automatic update process anyway.

 

[robinbredin]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say, there is nothing wrong with IE6. IE 7 has its problems, and IE8 is bloated.

 

[Schnippzle]

Tbh, rolling out IE7 isn't a ball-ache in the slightest. All we have done is sent out emails to the various 3rd party companies to confirm that they support IE7, and then we rolled it out with SMS/SCCM. Not really a difficult nor time-consuming task.

Fact of the matter is, us techies want IE7/Firefox. We are willing to put in the hours to roll it out properly but as long as corrupt managers with their own agendas pull the strings, we can't.

With the current economic climate, most Primary Care Trusts are being dismantled anyway and their IT staff will go that way as well. Unfortunately now is also the time when aforementioned managers will sell IT equipment through their part-owned retailing companies to GP surgeries etc. Fun times.

 

[NathanE]

Of greater than or equal concern is that IE6 implies an OS older than Vista. I.e. XP or Windows 2000.

I suspect this has nothing to do with cost but merely their IT departments aren't skilled enough to do it. I happen to have a fair amount of experience dealing with government IT departments and the state of affairs is shocking. The other week I had to describe to a council's IT Manager how to use WinZip to extract a file. Then I had to describe how to go find that file after it was extracted.

 

[theheyes]

Quite simply, cost.

In a lot of places IT is treated as a necessary evil that should be seen and not heard. If an update breaks something that is going to cost money to fix, then you can kiss the update goodbye.

Unfortunately it's hard to quantify the benefit of upgrading the browser vs the cold hard cost of doing something about the dodgy application they're using. As long as they are following guidelines and throw tens of thousands at Symantec every year, the IT security box is ticked and they get on with other aspects of the job.

 

[MarcLister]

Of greater than or equal concern is that IE6 implies an OS older than Vista. I.e. XP or Windows 2000.

Agree. We need to foot the bill for W7 Ultimate x64 now!

I suspect this has nothing to do with cost but merely their IT departments aren't skilled enough to do it. I happen to have a fair amount of experience dealing with government IT departments and the state of affairs is shocking. The other week I had to describe to a council's IT Manager how to use WinZip to extract a file. Then I had to describe how to go find that file after it was extracted.

WinZip? What's that then?

 

[craptakular]

firefox?