GPs complaints regarding work life balance

[Diagro]

Hey

Heard something on the radio today which annoyed me a little. Enough to write a most likely pointless thread about it.

GPs are complaining about working hours and their subsequent work life balance.

What irked me somewhat was the fact that these professionals earn a substantial amount of money. On average a GP earns £90,000 according to internet statistics.

Does this level of earning not come with the expectation of long hours and lack of a good work life balance?

The chap on the radio said he starts work at 7:30, and sometimes doesn't stop till 6:30 due to paperwork.
He sounded like this was just unacceptable.

But wait... Teachers for example can start work at similar hours and carry on working well into the evening. Weekends too. And through the so called "holidays" (actually called non contact time).
Yet teachers are paid on average £30,000. (This figure ignores the inflated wage of Senior leadership positions.. people who don't really teach much)

Nurses can do shifts that rival GPs, yet on average get paid £23,000.

So... Why are GPs up in arms about this? If they were getting paid a comparative figure to other public sector workers I would understand. But they don't, they earn substantially more.

Hmmmm. Posh guys expecting to have their cake and eat it too?

 

[Diagro]

Doctors go through extensive, and costly training. Most people could be a nurse or teacher if they wanted. Not many could qualify as a doctor. So they deserve their money.

But just because someone is paid well it doesn't mean they should work silly hours.

Nurses and teachers also have to undergo training.
Degree, school experience, PGCE, NQT then qualify. 6 years...

Some nurses do similar length training.

Your argument is moot.

Doesn't matter what your paid, shouldn't have to do silly hours. But, comparatively should they not be expected too based off the salary they demand?

 

[Diagro]

Posh guys? wtf are you on.

Planet earth mate.

Tbh, out of the entire GP practice local to me, nearly all the GPs have posh accents

 

[Diagro]

If being a doctor is as easy as qualifying to be a nurse or teacher, the hours are similar, but the pay is vastly higher... then why don't teachers and nurses become doctors instead?

Who said it was easy?????

I wouldn't dream of training to be a doctor. That requires remembering lots of things all the time, what a ball ache.

It was a reply to the length of time it takes to train.. I just pointed out it's similar as other professions.

 

[Diagro]

GP's generally don't make life or death decisions though.

They just pass you onto someone else who does lol. Gateway to .... Drugs??

 

[Diagro]

Teacher can be done in a 3 year course, GP takes 9 years.

Not berating teachers at all, they are grossly undervalued in society. But it's not the same at all.

You cannot become a teacher in 3 years.
Two years alone is the teacher training, which you need a degree to access.

 

[Diagro]

That is incorrect. Non-contact time are lessons during the work day where they do not teach so they can do the paperwork at work instead of in the holidays. Teacher normally have a number of non-contact time lessons in the timetable every week. Its not always enough to get everything done but the point of non contact time is so they don't work in the holidays.

You are incorrect.

The lessons you refer to are PPA. Which there is 5 of a fortnight.

Not enough time to plan, mark and prepare for the other 45 lessons.

For example, year groups reports may take 6 hours to deal with. And there is 7 year groups in secondary education.

The "holidays" are intact non contact time. Apart from 30odd days which every single person is entitled too as holiday.
Teachers are expected to work during the "holidays".

Anyone who says different needs to reassess their understanding.

 

[Diagro]

I agree.
Teachers really do have a lack of perspective since the vast majority have never done anything else. Yes there is a serious amount of planning....once. Then the remaining 40 years of your life are the same year stuck on repeat.

Once?

Why make a comment when you are ignorant to how things actually work

 

[Diagro]

Oh really?
https://www.kingston.ac.uk/undergraduate-course/primary-teaching-qts/

3 years.

Thats a degree. They still have to carry out the PGCE on the job and then do their NQT. So it's 5 years

Oh also, that's primary. And a very specialised course. Would lock you into primary teaching.

 

[Diagro]

No I am not incorrect. PPA is non contact time teachers are entitled to during the week. Most teachers do not work throughout the holidays. They might do an odd day here or there or perhaps 1 week out of 5 but they get the bulk of the holiday.

Anyone doing more that that is either managing their own time badly or in a bad school and should move. Its not normal or healthy for a Teachers to work throughout most holidays.

You are deluded. It's impossible to do the required work demanded of you in the hours given as PPA.

 

[Diagro]

The course has PGTE included. You can also do a secondary level one.

3 years to become a teacher, being a specialised course or not is irrelevant, if you wanted to become a teacher it takes 3 years.

It's a qualification that no one's wants. Pointless to argue.

To become a secondary school teacher. Takes 5+ years

 

[Diagro]

You're constantly moving goalposts and adding criteria, I stated it takes 3 years it you wanted to become a teacher, you posted that It doesnt, I posted evidence that it does, but apparantly no one wants to do that course (I cant imagine why they offer it if a single person doesn't enrol!) So it's now pointless to argue? You're flat out wrong.

Now apparently the only ones who count are secondary teachers, really grasping here arent you? You can do a two year BA degree at a number of university's now, then do the one year PGCE for secondary https://www.kingston.ac.uk/postgraduate-course/secondary-teaching-qts-pgce/
What's 2+1 again?

Not 3. That example is 4 years.

90% of teachers don't do a teaching degree. They do a Subject specific degree before training.

I'm bored now. I also have 140 folders I need to grade before tomorrow.

 

[Diagro]

I never said you can get all the work done in PPA which is non contact time during the work week. What I said is Teachers get non contact time every week so they don't have to do as much work in the holidays. You are deluded if you think its normal for teachers to work every holiday or even the bulk of the holidays. While that does happen in bad schools its not normal or healthy.

Bad schools.

Every single teacher I know (secondary and primary) working in schools graded between special measures and outstanding have the same issues with work load and needing to work majority of their holidays.

Not bad schools at all.
Where do you work? Only deluded Senior leaders have the stance you have.

 

[Diagro]

I am not a senior leader though I work throughout multiple school sites so know a large amount of Teachers. Most of the staff are given a decent amount of time within school hours to do paperwork so they don't have as much to do at home. When I was Teaching myself I rarely did anything at home. You do have to do the odd day or week but not every holiday all holiday. A lot Teachers around here will say do the first week of the summer holiday and then nothing for 4 or 5 weeks. I always took the first week off, worked 2nd and then took rest off. I am aware some schools have a really bad work/life balance but that doesn't mean every school and every Teacher has that bad balance. That's a myth that people in bad schools tell themselves so they feel like its normal when its not.

Unfortunately the climate at the moment is pushing teachers to work the max allowed in regards to contact time.

There are teachers on my school which only do 34hours a fortnight. Yet others like me doing 45hours a fortnight contact time. And we are expected to the same same amount of paperwork and more due to having more classes and more data to crunch.

It's such a minefield, I suppose it is hard to get down to the nitty gritty.

My teacher friends are all on max allocation. One quit this year because her school changed her from a 32hour timetable to a 45. She lasted a month then broke.

 

[Diagro]

The headteacher I spoke to disagreed with this so I suppose it's down to who you believe. He claimed that teachers do a bit of work in their holidays but it isn't much and the only reason to do more is poor time management. He as a headteacher pretty much had all of the school holidays off.

Headteacher, say no more.
Most don't even teach. Some do a 20% teaching allocation to keep skills up.
They have absolutely no idea what it's like as a fully allocated teacher in the current climate.

I used to work with a member of senior leadership, they had a 30% teaching allocation. And when ever a member of staff complained that there was no time, they just accused them of poor time management because they were able to handle the work load fine. Ignoring the fact a teacher doing 30% Vs a teacher doing 90% is doing a completely different job

 

[Diagro]

Talking of teaching, we are frequently finding innacuracies in the homework set for our kids. Also when I was choosing high schools for them I would question the IT teachers at the open days and most didn't really know the subject.

This is because GCSE ICT was scrapped a few years ago.
They moved to Computer Science. Unfortunately most of the teachers teaching the subject are Ex-ICT techers who were forced to teach it as "Its the same thing"... Which its not, only has a 5% overlap at best.

Those teachers are learning on the job and retraining in a new subject, which is why some cannot answer basic questions.

 

[Diagro]

op needs to stop reading the mail and express or needs to keep off the crystal meth ?

I don't read Papers.

I don't do drugs.

Try again to be witty