Graduate jobs / Speculative Emails

[Luckystrike123]

Barring any disasters I'll be graduating with a 1st MEng (Hons) Chemical Engineering and as such I need to find a job. I've applied for loads of jobs with blue chip companies but have yet to get past the first interview stage, with "new" graduate jobs often being listed from companies I've already been rejected by, applying for these jobs will likely be a waste of time.

I've been thinking of sending speculative CVs off to some of the smaller local engineering firms (I'm lucky that there are a lot within a commutable distance). I'm somewhat worried that my emails would just be ignored or that this tactic is otherwise futile / a waste of time.

Can anyone give any advice on how best to approach this task? If you are involved in recruiting what would you look for?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dowie]

Well firstly it might be worth addressing why you were rejected in the first place from “loads” of other companies before potentially burning bridges at a bunch more.

I mean if you’re predicted a first and are getting interviews then what are you doing wrong?

Have you tried having mock interviews with say a uni careers service or via some career focused uni societies? Failing that - how about with someone you know who has successfully landed a job offer/internship?

You mention grad jobs and blue chip companies but that’s a bit vague? What are you actually applying for? Are you looking for chemical engineering jobs?

Can you do a dissertation with an external supervisor/industrial partner - that would be an obvious way in.

Are you on a 3 or 4 year degree? If 3 then can you extend to 4 year and line up an internship or even some work experience over the summer? edit - doh, you're doing an MEng, obvs you're on a 4 year course...

Yes speculative applications can work, better still with small firms just calling them up and having a quick chat. Obvs there is a big difference between just phoning and asking if they have any jobs vs actually having a genuine interest in the area they work in and being able to quickly demonstrate this both with what you’re able to talk about and/or links to work you’ve done in that area.

Likewise just general networking, meeting people in the area you want to work in, specific meet-up type events etc...

Like have you bothered to join a society at uni related to this - if so then what connections have you made with the people in the year(s) above you - where do they work now and can they recommend you/put forth your CV? What about employers who have visited to deliver presentations/talks - quite easy to just research the company before hand introduce yourself after the talk, let them put a face to the name and then drop your CV across.

It's actually quite easy/low effort to boost your chances significantly especially if you're currently at uni and are a blank slate - just demonstrating some interest, doing a bit of networking, attending some socials etc.. can pay off massively.

 

[Macky]

Agree with what dowie has said. What it boils down to, is, do you want to be a chemical engineer, or use your chemical engineering degree to get you into blue chip company? From your OP, it sounds like you haven't quite decided yet - totally understandable at that point in your life. I was the same. You should have a think about what you want to do, whilst being realistic with your expectations.

As always with job applications, quality applications > quantity applications. It will be very easy to tell whether you have an interest in what the company is doing, or whether you've just copied and pasted your covering letter, etc.

Bearing in mind, the blue chip companies will likely have a more rigorous selection process. It could be worth first, gaining some experience at a smaller company if you haven't got any previous industry/business experience.

 

[dowie]

with "new" graduate jobs often being listed from companies I've already been rejected by, applying for these jobs will likely be a waste of time.

Depends - how much of a disaster was it first time around? If diff department/diff hiring managers etc.. then nothing to lose in trying especially if you were a near miss first time around.

 

[Luckystrike123]

Thanks for the feedback, you've raised some interesting points.

I've mainly been applying for chemical engineering jobs although I have applied for some different sectors/positions that sounds interesting. I choose to do a chem eng degree as it has a broad application and is generally seen as valuable to alternate sectors.

I think I know where I have gone wrong with some of my applications / interviews:

1. I have had poor health recently which has meant that I've been incredibly tired most of the time, resulting in subpar performance in online testing / interviews. I have a hospital appointment next month and I'll likely need an operation. The situation has been slightly improved with some medicine I've been prescribed but it's still hit / miss each day.
2. Employers seem to have an extreme bias towards industrial experience, of which I have none. This occurred for various reasons (birth of first child, had spinal surgery etc), not a great deal I can do about this now.
3. Having had some psychrometric testing results back it would appear that I have some autistic traits, specifically that I require social context to determine the emotions of others. Interestingly I had not realised that this was the case until I had this feedback, but I would imagine that this type of result would prejudice my applications. Also, I've found it difficult doing web interviews where I can see my own face (distracting), not sure if this is related?
4. When returning to education I did an access course rather than A-Levels. I know this has been a problem as I have been rejected on "qualifications" so I now make sure to include the A-level equivalent of AAA.

I have previously worked as a junior manager within the civil service and have some really good examples of great work that I have done. In each of the interviews I've done there has been very few questions where I could talk about these achievements. One of my supervisors thinks that they likely don't care about my work history as its not at a high enough level and that my age (36) may disadvantage me as I do not fit the typical graduate profile. He also thinks it will be easier when I have the degree rather than being someone predicted a first.

I haven't taken part in any uni clubs, and neither has anyone else who hasn't failed/dropped out. The degree is incredibly time consuming and coupled with commuting and family commitments I have very little time for myself.

The application process is typically:
1) CV & covering letter
2) Online testing
3) Web interview
4) Secondary interview
5) Assessment centre

I tailor each covering letter to the job / company so it’s not an issue with quantity > quality. I've seen a careers advisor at the uni, so I think I've got this part sorted. I have some great extra points for the CV (academic prizes, extracurricular research projects) so I am able to differentiate myself from generic students. I'm aiming to be best graduating chem eng student and obviously this will be another feather in the cap.

I think the calling the businesses directly is a good idea (better than my initial thought of CV & letter) and I will use this approach. I have ~16 weeks left at uni so the networking opportunities will be limited but I'll keep a look out. For my dissertation there are 3 industrial based projects, but all are based control engineering, and this is a weak area for me. I'll select this as options, but I may not be selected.

 

[Luckystrike123]

Thought I'd give a quick update as I've finally bagged myself a job.

I graduated last month with a 1st MEng (Hons) but with the covid situation the job market has been utterly terrible, having 2 interviews for graduate roles and an agreed temp job cancelled.

I took onboard the suggestion to do a dissertation with industrial links and through this avenue I was approached by an affiliated company who have hired me as a graduate process control engineer.

Looking back on the graduate recruitment cycle I seem to have had much more success with applications that required the submission of a CV rather than those using web forms, although my job offer was obtained essentially through recommendation rather than interview etc (who you know rather than what you know?).

If this thread appears in any graduate's google searches I would heavily recommend getting relevant experience through summer jobs and by doing a sandwich year in industry. I also feel that going to a Russell group university would be useful, although having said that I have no complaints with the quality of my education from a so-called "lesser" institution.

 

[Semple]

Congratulations on your job offer.

If this thread appears in any graduate's google searches I would heavily recommend getting relevant experience through summer jobs and by doing a sandwich year in industry.

I converted my degree into a 4 year/sandwich to do a year in industry. It was incredibly valuable, and as you mentioned, it made securing a job much easier when graduating. I remember starting second year and all the lecturers were making a big thing about doing a placement year, but you can certainly see why at the end.

 

[dowie]

I took onboard the suggestion to do a dissertation with industrial links and through this avenue I was approached by an affiliated company who have hired me as a graduate process control engineer.

Nice one! That can certainly be a good way in - simply demonstrate you can do good work to the right people... they then have a much better assessment of you than the typical interview process would give them too

Looking back on the graduate recruitment cycle I seem to have had much more success with applications that required the submission of a CV rather than those using web forms, although my job offer was obtained essentially through recommendation rather than interview etc (who you know rather than what you know?).

Surely the recommendation was based on what you know? I presume it came from your external supervisor in this case? That rightly should carry more weight vs some unknown at interview - if someone has seen your work over a few months and has recommended you on the back of that then that's a complete no brainer, assuming they're a hiring manager or their view is respected by another hiring manager etc..

Personal recommendations/referrals can often skip the HR filter and CV go straight to the hiring manager or 1st stage interview process in various firms and often the person making the recommendation might get a bit of cash thrown their way as an incentive too. Companies both save on recruiter fees and tend to get good candidates this way as generally most people aren't going to put their name behind a bad candidate.

 

[MrRockliffe]

I graduated last month with a 1st MEng (Hons) but with the covid situation the job market has been utterly terrible, having 2 interviews for graduate roles and an agreed temp job cancelled.

Yep, utterly horrendous at the moment.

I’ve had mates that have had their entire graduate job cancelled

I’ve had 2 interviews so far, but struggling to get in front of anyone.


I’ve had 2 years of working experience, pre university and during, graduated with 2nd class from a top 5 uni in an engineering degree and recently shelled out for some career coaching (CV development, interview training etc) to put myself in the best possible position. Also have 2 years of voluntary work experience mentoring, running a mentoring scheme for my department and sitting on the committee for the mentoring scheme.

There are simply so many people applying for jobs at the moment that HR can’t be getting through enough CVs!

 

[Semple]

Yep, utterly horrendous at the moment.

I’ve had mates that have had their entire graduate job cancelled

I’ve had 2 interviews so far, but struggling to get in front of anyone.


I’ve had 2 years of working experience, pre university and during, graduated with 2nd class from a top 5 uni in an engineering degree and recently shelled out for some career coaching (CV development, interview training etc) to put myself in the best possible position. Also have 2 years of voluntary work experience mentoring, running a mentoring scheme for my department and sitting on the committee for the mentoring scheme.

There are simply so many people applying for jobs at the moment that HR can’t be getting through enough CVs!

Yeah it's gotta be a rough time.

If as you say graduate jobs/schemes are being cancelled, then there just becomes a huge pool of graduates with very few graduate jobs. To make things worse, even if you apply for normal/junior type roles, you'll likely be also competing for those roles from non-grads.

I'd read in our local news recently that a GP practice had a job advert out for a receptionist, and had nearly 1k applications for it. Obviously to trawl through 1k job applications would be incredibly time consuming, so it's likely they would have just picked the top 20 or so to look through until coming across a satisfactory candidate.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Yeah it's gotta be a rough time.

If as you say graduate jobs/schemes are being cancelled, then there just becomes a huge pool of graduates with very few graduate jobs. To make things worse, even if you apply for normal/junior type roles, you'll likely be also competing for those roles from non-grads.

I'd read in our local news recently that a GP practice had a job advert out for a receptionist, and had nearly 1k applications for it. Obviously to trawl through 1k job applications would be incredibly time consuming, so it's likely they would have just picked the top 20 or so to look through until coming across a satisfactory candidate.

Absolutely. Makes job alerts ever more important - you really need to be in the top 5% of applicants

 

[Luckystrike123]

Yep, utterly horrendous at the moment.

I’ve had mates that have had their entire graduate job cancelled

I’ve had 2 interviews so far, but struggling to get in front of anyone.


I’ve had 2 years of working experience, pre university and during, graduated with 2nd class from a top 5 uni in an engineering degree and recently shelled out for some career coaching (CV development, interview training etc) to put myself in the best possible position. Also have 2 years of voluntary work experience mentoring, running a mentoring scheme for my department and sitting on the committee for the mentoring scheme.

There are simply so many people applying for jobs at the moment that HR can’t be getting through enough CVs!

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, these really are exceptionally bad times and I feel that I got lucky in many respects.

Over the years I've worked with several people who graduated with good degrees, ended up in the same dead end job as me, then later landing really good graduate jobs (banking, consultancy etc.). The only advice I can offer is to just keep applying and that eventually you'll get were you need to be.

 

[MrRockliffe]

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, these really are exceptionally bad times and I feel that I got lucky in many respects.

Over the years I've worked with several people who graduated with good degrees, ended up in the same dead end job as me, then later landing really good graduate jobs (banking, consultancy etc.). The only advice I can offer is to just keep applying and that eventually you'll get were you need to be.

Thanks

Well statistically, for every no I get, I’m a step closer to a yes Although it doesn’t always feel that way

 

[Luckystrike123]

Yeah it's gotta be a rough time.

If as you say graduate jobs/schemes are being cancelled, then there just becomes a huge pool of graduates with very few graduate jobs. To make things worse, even if you apply for normal/junior type roles, you'll likely be also competing for those roles from non-grads.

I'd read in our local news recently that a GP practice had a job advert out for a receptionist, and had nearly 1k applications for it. Obviously to trawl through 1k job applications would be incredibly time consuming, so it's likely they would have just picked the top 20 or so to look through until coming across a satisfactory candidate.

I feel that this ties into my observation about having more success with CV applications versus web forms. With a CV/covering letter you are able to differentiate yourself easily and point out your best qualities/achievements, whereas a web form is perhaps a "box ticking" process that eliminates large numbers of candidates.