GregI Mesh Network Advice
- Thread starter GregI
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Don't know of alternatives that everyone is happy with and it can't be worse than the Smart Hub. Plus easy returns if it does end up being bad.
Edit: Also looking at the Deco XE75 Pro.
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Yeah after doing abit more research seems like the Eero isn't that great. Currently looking at The TP-Link Deco stuff but there is literally like 500 versions of them (S series, M series, X20, X50, X55, X60). Open to any suggestions. 3 story house with an extension but top floor doesn't really have devices anyway so more like 2.
Also about the traffic management stuff. Pretty sure it's a thing of the past as born said. I don't even know why throttling was a thing.
Openreach is doing over 200PB a day right now: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...-229-petabytes-pb-uk-data-traffic-record.html
If anything traffic shaping should be a thing at this moment with all the 1Gig plans but it's simply not and never will be. No way like 10 years ago was the network even close to 200PB that traffic shaping should have been in effect for anything. All of a sudden 200PB a day is no problem that unlimited usage and no traffic shaping is just expected.
Also about the traffic management stuff. Pretty sure it's a thing of the past as born said. I don't even know why throttling was a thing.
Openreach is doing over 200PB a day right now: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...-229-petabytes-pb-uk-data-traffic-record.html
If anything traffic shaping should be a thing at this moment with all the 1Gig plans but it's simply not and never will be. No way like 10 years ago was the network even close to 200PB that traffic shaping should have been in effect for anything. All of a sudden 200PB a day is no problem that unlimited usage and no traffic shaping is just expected.
Currently just standard FTTC speed but I'll likely be moving to a 150 or maybe even 500 package on FTTP if the price is good.
My understanding is right now on FTTC I get a Openreach modem (like a Huawei HG612) and put that into the Eero or whatever. Then if you do move to FTTP, you just throw out the Huawei modem (since it'll be cheap on the bay to buy anyway) and connect the Eero to the ONT or whatever the engineer installs on the wall.Hmmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all of those different products? FTTC (VDSL2), G.Fast and FTTP? Is there a third party device that tackles all three?
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Spoke too soon. Just saw there are some these days that can do all of them. Nice to know.(For those interested, a WAN port for FTTP, and a VDSL2/GFast combined modem inside the router permitting it to tackle all three and without needing to do much to swap between them)
Update. Decided on the paths of action.
1: Gonna try the Smart Hub 2. People are basically giving away sealed units on the bay so may aswell give it a try before going for more exotic measures. I might actually get the Business version though because apparently on that you can full modem mode only which will be handy for options 2, 3 and 4 below (saves having to buy some tattered old HG612 modem). I can't find what CPU is in the Smart Hub 1 but the Smart Hub 2 is some bog standard dual core 1Ghz. Will likely still be bad for ping spikes.
2: Every place seems to revel in the Asus RT-AX86U. Another forum said weaker Asus AC models were covering 3 story while the router was placed in a basement so I have high hopes for it. Also it will eliminate ping spikes with a quad core 1.8 Ghz cpu. Rated for 35+ concurrent devices which I'll never reach. Will be £210.99
3: If the option 2 single router is still kinda bad but fixes the ping problems ans is generally nice (it has supprot for Merlin firmware) I'll wait a couple months then just add another and mesh them (with powerline backhaul if I have to). Kind of expensive at the end of the day though. coming in around £400.
4: RT-AX92U. Much weaker specs than the above option 2 (only dual core 1.8Ghz but that's still 0.8 more than the Smart Hub to process data). Plus I guess it has better IPC... do router chips even get IPC improvements lol. It will however... well I hope solve the range issues being a 2 pack and that will be £322.99
5: If the Smart Hub 2 is somehow decent with ping, scrap options 2-4 and just get the premium whole home 3 disc kit for £180~ and bang one on each floor. Would get everything done for under £200.
Now I know if you read my previous posts and the above you will be like "why tf is this moron now wanting to go BT?". Well good question. I hope I can help answer it.
There are some interesting leaks regarding BT happening around late February 2023: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/bt-smart-hub-3-launch.39068/
A Smart Hub 3 with Wi fi 6 and 2.5 Gbps ports is coming. However, leaks indicate that it's not coming directly from BT and they will release it as a model for anyone picking up EE (they want EE to be the flagship brand). BT customers will be able to migrate over to EE and get the SH 3 if they recontract. Speculation that anything over Full Fibre 500 will now only be offered to EE customers.
1: Gonna try the Smart Hub 2. People are basically giving away sealed units on the bay so may aswell give it a try before going for more exotic measures. I might actually get the Business version though because apparently on that you can full modem mode only which will be handy for options 2, 3 and 4 below (saves having to buy some tattered old HG612 modem). I can't find what CPU is in the Smart Hub 1 but the Smart Hub 2 is some bog standard dual core 1Ghz. Will likely still be bad for ping spikes.
2: Every place seems to revel in the Asus RT-AX86U. Another forum said weaker Asus AC models were covering 3 story while the router was placed in a basement so I have high hopes for it. Also it will eliminate ping spikes with a quad core 1.8 Ghz cpu. Rated for 35+ concurrent devices which I'll never reach. Will be £210.99
3: If the option 2 single router is still kinda bad but fixes the ping problems ans is generally nice (it has supprot for Merlin firmware) I'll wait a couple months then just add another and mesh them (with powerline backhaul if I have to). Kind of expensive at the end of the day though. coming in around £400.
4: RT-AX92U. Much weaker specs than the above option 2 (only dual core 1.8Ghz but that's still 0.8 more than the Smart Hub to process data). Plus I guess it has better IPC... do router chips even get IPC improvements lol. It will however... well I hope solve the range issues being a 2 pack and that will be £322.99
5: If the Smart Hub 2 is somehow decent with ping, scrap options 2-4 and just get the premium whole home 3 disc kit for £180~ and bang one on each floor. Would get everything done for under £200.
Now I know if you read my previous posts and the above you will be like "why tf is this moron now wanting to go BT?". Well good question. I hope I can help answer it.
There are some interesting leaks regarding BT happening around late February 2023: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/bt-smart-hub-3-launch.39068/
A Smart Hub 3 with Wi fi 6 and 2.5 Gbps ports is coming. However, leaks indicate that it's not coming directly from BT and they will release it as a model for anyone picking up EE (they want EE to be the flagship brand). BT customers will be able to migrate over to EE and get the SH 3 if they recontract. Speculation that anything over Full Fibre 500 will now only be offered to EE customers.
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@ChrisD. You can't say "Stop blindly spending money on items which may not cure your issue." then come up with some more stuff like "OP will follow their own narrative and ignore all useful advice anyway." without even giving me a chance to respond to what Armageus said.
Whoever said the ping spikes were over wi-fi? It was ethernet. Pretty sure I mentioned that earlier but if not I hope that helps explain and I apologise for not being clearer.
My thought process being: Well the only stuff that has changed recently is more devices being added and since the spikes only happen when other devices are active even all idle on the network, it seems like a good idea to blame something that can't process data fast enough, the cpu. If it's 1am and others devices are completely off then no ping spikes. I was thinking like a quad core or whatever would more be able to handle those clients attached more evenly across the cores leading to less problems. Obviously thinking about it now it does sound stupid that the cpu on a router would help this but I just try to think of every possibility I can.
@Armageus I'll try to respond to your points if that's ok.
"A new router will not solve any range issues - all access points/wifi routers have to obey transmit power limits - there aren't more powerful units. Correct placement and quantity of access points is all you need to control."
I do understand this but again my thought process: The Smart Hub is ~2011 tech that tops out at 802.11ac (If I'm wrong on this my apologies). Now the mesh systems I looked at have 802.11ax as the wireless backhaul (tri band) which I believe has better range than the BT Smart Hub can ever have (between nodes anyway) because of this. I just place the 802.11ax nodes a couple feet infront before the wireless range issues are happening and since better range, it should then make those wireless deadspots not wireless deadspots anymore.
"Just No"
Not to be rude but can you elaborate on this? Why is the system bad for what I require? I did some reading on them and apparently you can ethernet backhaul BETWEEN nodes and not have to go through the router at all which then means cabling can be done much easier then.
"If you separate out your Modem/Router/Wifi, then you can upgrade each part independently as required."
Ordered the HG612 as you suggested/advised. Will be a good modular addition to the network.
Finally, Chris I'm not against taking advice. It's just if I see advice I want it to be backed up and explained thoroughly to see if it jives. To me "Just No" doesn't really help. It's like in the RAM section here and someone asks if 16GB of 2800C30 for £200 is good value for a 5950x CPU and I type "Just no" to the person then nothing happens. That person gets 0 value and nobody else that happens to read that also wanting to learn about RAM doesn't either. However, if I explain stuff like cas latency and how AMD performs best with 3200/3600 RAM and show reputable sources with benchmarks to corroborate the claims then everybody wins. That guy ended up learning and feeling well informed about his purchase and anyone else getting introduced to RAM aswell.
Like the "just get access points" stuff above. Well could you maybe recommend some models when you say access points are the way to go? Why this model? Good personal experience with them? Just little stuff like that you know.
Edit: So still no responses.
Whoever said the ping spikes were over wi-fi? It was ethernet. Pretty sure I mentioned that earlier but if not I hope that helps explain and I apologise for not being clearer.
My thought process being: Well the only stuff that has changed recently is more devices being added and since the spikes only happen when other devices are active even all idle on the network, it seems like a good idea to blame something that can't process data fast enough, the cpu. If it's 1am and others devices are completely off then no ping spikes. I was thinking like a quad core or whatever would more be able to handle those clients attached more evenly across the cores leading to less problems. Obviously thinking about it now it does sound stupid that the cpu on a router would help this but I just try to think of every possibility I can.
@Armageus I'll try to respond to your points if that's ok.
"A new router will not solve any range issues - all access points/wifi routers have to obey transmit power limits - there aren't more powerful units. Correct placement and quantity of access points is all you need to control."
I do understand this but again my thought process: The Smart Hub is ~2011 tech that tops out at 802.11ac (If I'm wrong on this my apologies). Now the mesh systems I looked at have 802.11ax as the wireless backhaul (tri band) which I believe has better range than the BT Smart Hub can ever have (between nodes anyway) because of this. I just place the 802.11ax nodes a couple feet infront before the wireless range issues are happening and since better range, it should then make those wireless deadspots not wireless deadspots anymore.
"Just No"
Not to be rude but can you elaborate on this? Why is the system bad for what I require? I did some reading on them and apparently you can ethernet backhaul BETWEEN nodes and not have to go through the router at all which then means cabling can be done much easier then.
"If you separate out your Modem/Router/Wifi, then you can upgrade each part independently as required."
Ordered the HG612 as you suggested/advised. Will be a good modular addition to the network.
Finally, Chris I'm not against taking advice. It's just if I see advice I want it to be backed up and explained thoroughly to see if it jives. To me "Just No" doesn't really help. It's like in the RAM section here and someone asks if 16GB of 2800C30 for £200 is good value for a 5950x CPU and I type "Just no" to the person then nothing happens. That person gets 0 value and nobody else that happens to read that also wanting to learn about RAM doesn't either. However, if I explain stuff like cas latency and how AMD performs best with 3200/3600 RAM and show reputable sources with benchmarks to corroborate the claims then everybody wins. That guy ended up learning and feeling well informed about his purchase and anyone else getting introduced to RAM aswell.
Like the "just get access points" stuff above. Well could you maybe recommend some models when you say access points are the way to go? Why this model? Good personal experience with them? Just little stuff like that you know.
Edit: So still no responses.
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