Grief / Confusion trying to fix a phone socket/line. ARGH!

[SB118]

Spent about 3 hours this evening trying to sort out a relations phones.

Line is totally dead, no line tone, no ringing when somebody dials in.

I open up the master box and incoming junction box, omfg, think this stuff was fitted before the war (hastings 1066 to be exact)

Prehistoric wire, damn stuff snaps off if you do it up in the screws too tight.
Middle pic - Red is the current active line. Yellow is an old 2nd line that has been disconnected since they moved in 15ish years ago. Green is a (suspected) bodge to use the circuit of the second phone line as an extension to the main circuit.

It looks a bit of a bundle as they're running a spur off the master to run another handful of sockets on the upper floors.

Things are behaving very strangely, if i connect a master box to the incoming line, there is nothing,, if i connect a new master box to the cables shown (the white, white & white coding REALLY helps sort things out) i can either get constant ringing or ringing which continues to ring (in the ear piece) when i pick it up. I can dial in to the number but it doesn't stop ringing when i pick up the handset.

What have i done wrong, i've had a brain fart and stopped fiddling until i can get a clear impression of what i'm doing. I'm sure the fudged secondary circuit is causing a problem, but i don't know where it runs to, goes down the wall and vanishes under the carpet.

Any ideas?

Cheers.

 

[silversurfer]

That constant ringing is something Ive seen before, it can happen with too many phones on one line also I suspect a short circuit would do the same.

Wont the telephone company come have a look, I think the wires upto the master socket actually belong to them and its illegal to interfere with it even when its inside your house.

Theres some discussion of this regarding adsl, it might help to check that out?

 

[Scottland]

Call the line provider, AFAIK it should still ring in the exchange, even if the internal wiring is FUBAR.

With this weather we've been having, it's probably not related to the internal wiring, unless someone has been messing with it...

 

[SB118]

Wont the telephone company come have a look, I think the wires upto the master socket actually belong to them and its illegal to interfere with it even when its inside your house.

Think the contract is for where the cable enters the building, this doesn't look like a BT installation (it's an el cheapo single plate master box, not the 2 piece unit BT fit)

Call the line provider, AFAIK it should still ring in the exchange, even if the internal wiring is FUBAR.

With this weather we've been having, it's probably not related to the internal wiring, unless someone has been messing with it...

BT have tested the line and say it's fine. You can dial the number and with fiddling the phone will ring, but there is nothing there when you pick up the handset (you can hear the ringing in the earpiece)

And it was busted BEFORE i got to it. (instead of being buggered after i've finished, which is the usual )

 

[JaFFa]

now let me see, yes I know put the red wire in the top right... O no wait maybe the 2nd bottom from left. O no thats not it....

Maybe you should just ring up presumably BT ask them for help ?

 

[Dup]

I have an instruction book at home for one of these boxes. I could scan it about 6pm tonight

 

[monkeyspank]

If that's been fitted by BT then you aren't mean to be in there dude. It looks a mess so might be easier to replace the whole lot. Start from scratch.

 

[SB118]

If that's been fitted by BT then you aren't mean to be in there dude. It looks a mess so might be easier to replace the whole lot. Start from scratch.

It's not a BT install, it's not BT branded master box, or the A-B connecting 2 piece type either.

 

[Briton]

The constant ringing can be caused by a faulty master socket but are you sure that is your master? I can't see if there is a capacitor from that pic.

Why are there two connections in terminal 3 (ringer)? The incoming line connects across 2 and 5 and any extensions pick up there but also connect to 3 for the ring tone. Therefore if you have line in/ext out you should only have one connection in 3 (orange) at the master.

 

[SB118]

The constant ringing can be caused by a faulty master socket but are you sure that is your master? I can't see if there is a capacitor from that pic.

Yeah, just a bad angle on the photo. That's the old master, i was using one noe out of the packet to be sure that it wasn't the prob. Knowing my luck i've bought a duff one

Why are there two connections in terminal 3 (ringer)? The incoming line connects across 2 and 5 and any extensions pick up there but also connect to 3 for the ring tone. Therefore if you have line in/ext out you should only have one connection in 3 (orange) at the master.

That's a snap of the wiring that was in place when i got to it, a fine demonstration of old & new wiring if i ever saw one! I've disconnected any extra circuit stuff until i can get the begger working.

 

[Briton]

I've disconnected any extra circuit stuff until i can get the begger working.

If you only have the incoming line (48v) connected to terminals 2 and, 5 and are still having ring problems, it could be a faulty new master. It's the master that generates the ring, so if there's nothing else connected to back feed into the ringer terminal 3, I can't think what else it could be.

You've tried various handsets I take it?

 

[silversurfer]

Think the contract is for where the cable enters the building, this doesn't look like a BT installation (it's an el cheapo single plate master box, not the 2 piece unit BT fit)

The 2 piece unit is the newer one but our house has a single plate and its definetly a bt fit.
I just read that people werent allowed to change the master socket because all wires upto and including that point were bt's responcibility

 

[SB118]

If you only have the incoming line (48v) connected to terminals 2 and, 5 and are still having ring problems, it could be a faulty new master. It's the master that generates the ring, so if there's nothing else connected to back feed into the ringer terminal 3, I can't think what else it could be.

You've tried various handsets I take it?

Three different handsets JUST incase. Tried ANOTHER new master socket today. Still nowt. Unless i short the earth to terminal 3, THEN the phone rings, but doesn't detect when you pick it up (you get ringing static on the earpiece).

So i bypassed all the fubar wiring (got bored swearing at the stuff when it snaps, amazingly brittle with age) and went direct to the incoming cables before they connected to the junction box.

Still nothing, very low voltage readings, but it was still giving a live output on terminal 3 when i rang in. Coupled with the earth to terminal 3 enabling it to ring all i can think of is damaged cable from the pole to building or greenbox to pole. Thinking along the lines of "If the return cable is busted somewhere it wouldn't complete the circuit to let the handset ring, but me feeding the earth into the back of the 'extra ring' circuit lets it complete".

I asked my uncle when the phone packed up, "oh about 2 weeks, when we had those really strong winds."

And he didn't tell me this 2 days ago WHY?

 

[wozzizname]

Sounds like one leg of the incoming line is leaking to earth, though the line test should have picked that up. Try ringing 17070 yourself to get the test system and give it a try .
What voltage reading were you getting across the incoming line pair ?

 

[SB118]

Sounds like one leg of the incoming line is leaking to earth, though the line test should have picked that up. Try ringing 17070 yourself to get the test system and give it a try .
What voltage reading were you getting across the incoming line pair ?

There is no activity on the line to dial out with, dead as a doornail. Unless i use the earth. BUT if the line isn't being dialed into the earth trick results in constant ringing.

Can't remember the voltage, but the needle wasn't moving very much at all. (pretty sure i had it on 50v range)

 

[SB118]

Connect just the new master box (you do have a 2 piece master and not a face plate?)to the BT drop cable

The BT cable usually has Orange, White, Green and Black wires. Usually Orange and White are the active pair and go to connections 2 and 5 or A and B Master

To conect an extension

2, Blue with White Bands, Speech and Ringing
3, Orange with White Bands, Ringing
4, Not needed
5, White with Blue Bands, Speech and Ringing

If you only have a face plate then pin 3 will do nothing and the phone may not ring but should work

I'm using a faceplate master, cheaper!, the incoming line is two black lines, ran them to 2 & 5 and it's dead

 

[Briton]

Three different handsets JUST incase. Tried ANOTHER new master socket today. Still nowt. Unless i short the earth to terminal 3, THEN the phone rings, but doesn't detect when you pick it up (you get ringing static on the earpiece).

So i bypassed all the fubar wiring (got bored swearing at the stuff when it snaps, amazingly brittle with age) and went direct to the incoming cables before they connected to the junction box.

Still nothing, very low voltage readings, but it was still giving a live output on terminal 3 when i rang in. Coupled with the earth to terminal 3 enabling it to ring all i can think of is damaged cable from the pole to building or greenbox to pole. Thinking along the lines of "If the return cable is busted somewhere it wouldn't complete the circuit to let the handset ring, but me feeding the earth into the back of the 'extra ring' circuit lets it complete".

I asked my uncle when the phone packed up, "oh about 2 weeks, when we had those really strong winds."

And he didn't tell me this 2 days ago WHY?

Strange one for sure. You'd think BT would have picked up an earth fault. I had to have my incoming overhead line replaced once. It had catgut and a fishing float wrapped around it and had eventually cut through one leg.

 

[SB118]

Are you sure your using the correct incoming pair?

There are only two wires coming in, even i can't get the wrong pair out of that