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GTX280+ 55nm Shortly

If it's true then a die-shrink is a good thing, apart from using less power to run it should mean they can produce more cores for less money i.e GeForce GTX 280+ costing £230 :D
 
easyrider said:
I think NV have learnt their lesson on this one.
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No chance. There a business, and will price it high if they think it will sell enough units. I would be very surprised if they do actually release it at the same price as the current 280. I see it as having higher clocks and possibly cooler running, that will justify a slightly higher price.

I think the important thing to note here is that ATI are not looking like they will have a 4870 "+" card on the horizon. Of course they have the R700 but that will be an much higher price. Going from that the price will be high until at least the plain old 280 runs out of stock.

Of course that's just a guess and Nvidia could try to compete on price, but they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. I suspect ATI has more room to move on price than Nvidia right now! (in profit terms).

Matthew
 
Scougar said:
No chance. There a business, and will price it high if they think it will sell enough units. I would be very surprised if they do actually release it at the same price as the current 280. I see it as having higher clocks and possibly cooler running, that will justify a slightly higher price.

I think the important thing to note here is that ATI are not looking like they will have a 4870 "+" card on the horizon. Of course they have the R700 but that will be an much higher price. Going from that the price will be high until at least the plain old 280 runs out of stock.

Of course that's just a guess and Nvidia could try to compete on price, but they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. I suspect ATI has more room to move on price than Nvidia right now! (in profit terms).

Matthew
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Of course they are a business but product will only sell if the consumer is willing to pay.


The consumer was not willing to pay £200 for a paltry perfromance gain over the 4870 hence why they dropped the price 2 weeks from release.

Cannot wait for the 4870 and 4850 X2 cards.

These releases alone will be enough to prevent NV price gouging consumers
 
Good news for Nvidia, they really needed to pull this rabbit if they wanted to bounce back in this round.

While I would still not be at all interested in going Nvidia this time around, this product would definitely be taken into consideration if I were buying a new card soon. But only if it's similar to a GTX280 and with the price cut to take savings on manufacturing cost from the die shrink into consideration.

i.e. If they decided to go mental with clocks, adversely affecting supply, then slapping an Ultra label on it they could get the hell away from me. But if this was purely a cost-cutting measure then I'd be giving it a second look.
 
I understand where your coming from easyrider and completely agree :) But think about this... if the 280gtx was offering (on average???) 25% increase for £200, which isn't a good deal, what happens now the 25% increase is only £50-£80 extra?

Then the new GT280b comes out, and is overclocked on smaller process and that 25% average becomes say.. 30-35%.... then that £50-£80 price increase starts to become a whole lot more attractive.

Don't get me wrong, the 4870X2 is STILL gonna slaughter the GT280b, (from the preview benchmarks I've read at least), but with the 4870X2 being substantially higher price, I would expect the newer GT280b to also be a higher price. Unless Nvidia do exactly what ATI did and severely underprice the new gt280b, which I doubt they will do, as they will want the money back they lost with lack of sales on the old gt280.

If I was looking at the 4870 now, I'd also be checking out the 280GTX now as well, especially given it's massive price drop.

Matthew
 
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Scougar said:
I understand where your coming from easyrider and completely agree :) But think about this... if the 280gtx was offering (on average???) 25% increase for £200, which isn't a good deal, what happens now the 25% increase is only £50-£80 extra?

Then the new GT280b comes out, and is overclocked on smaller process and that 25% average becomes say.. 30-35%.... then that £50-£80 price increase starts to become a whole lot more attractive.

Don't get me wrong, the 4870X2 is STILL gonna slaughter the GT280b, (from the preview benchmarks I've read at least), but with the 4870X2 being substantially higher price, I would expect the newer GT280b to also be a higher price. Unless Nvidia do exactly what ATI did and severely underprice the new gt280b, which I doubt they will do, as they will want the money back they lost with lack of sales on the old gt280.

If I was looking at the 4870 now, I'd also be checking out the 280GTX now as well, especially given it's massive price drop.

Matthew
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Why do people think ATi "underpriced" the 48xx series? They probably had better yields and more cost effective, thus pricing accordingly. Nvidia's 2xx series is a dinosaur, poor yields etc etc.

"Underpricing" or predatory pricing is when you set the price below cost, which is not the case.

On another note (not aimed at you!) I find it funny reading news items and even posts about this "round", it's almost hypocritical to read sites previewing the 4870X2 saying it must be cheap etc, despite these same sites previously reviewing the £400+ Nvidia cards and not slating their pricing strategy much. I feel that sites/people are too white washed by Nvidia as well.
 
rafster said:
Why do people think ATi "underpriced" the 48xx series? They probably had better yields and more cost effective, thus pricing accordingly. Nvidia's 2xx series is a dinosaur, poor yields etc etc.
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This is the truth, not to mention the price fixing ATI were (allegedly) previously involved in.

This round has really shown us the potential of the graphics market to satisfy consumers.
 
Ulfhedjinn said:
This is the truth, not to mention the price fixing ATI were (allegedly) previously involved in.

This round has really shown us the potential of the graphics market to satisfy consumers.
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Exactly, now all we need is the review sites and all the Nvidions to become impartial. I have said this many times before, computer components should not be product line where people have allegiances, especially in CPUs and GPUs. Should always buy whatever is best for your money rather than aiming at Green or red exclusively.
 
I'm not suggesting Underpricing in business terms, of "under cost". Perhaps I should have said "undercut" instead. I don't think the ATI cards are underpriced BTW, I think they are just right and it is frankly, exactly what ATI needed to do, to get back some market share.

When I say Nvidia "Underpricing like ATI did", I purely meant passing on the savings of the cheaper process. I don't think they will do that though as they will still want to be seen as the market leader and have the higher priced part.

The satisfy consumers is an interesting one really. As it is more about saving ATI's ass rather than the consumer. I know it goes hand-in-hand, but I think it is more about making money again, and they've managed to do that (hopefully).


.. and yes I agree, get whatever is best at the time, not because it's from a particular company.

Matthew
 
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Scougar said:
I'm not suggesting Underpricing in business terms, of "under cost". Perhaps I should have said "undercut" instead. I don't think the ATI cards are underpriced BTW, I think they are just right and it is frankly, exactly what ATI needed to do, to get back some market share.

When I say Nvidia "Underpricing like ATI did", I purely meant passing on the savings of the cheaper process. I don't think they will do that though as they will still want to be seen as the market leader and have the higher priced part.

The satisfy consumers is an interesting one really. As it is more about saving ATI's ass rather than the consumer. I know it goes hand-in-hand, but I think it is more about making money again, and they've managed to do that (hopefully).


.. and yes I agree, get whatever is best at the time, not because it's from a particular company.

Matthew
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I personally think Nvidia got its strategy completely wrong; they probably felt they had defeated ATi. They knew ATi were embarking on a strategy of offering slightly slower but more "bang for buck" products, but instead Nvidia still focused on producing overpriced cards, believing consumers (some still did) would pay silly prices for them with little innovation (all this "+" rehashing, the G92 rehasing etc)

ATi actually looked at the industry and realised that mid-high range was always worth more in aggregate than ultra high end. I find it laughable that people I know are willing to pay £100 for Nvidia parts that are nothing compared to a £100 ATi part but do it because the games they play say Nvidia is the "way it's meant to be played". I guess that is one area Nvidia got right and that is their marketing.

Historically the big players have usually went for the top end as the benchmark, but this is not the trend setter anymore (thankfully from a consumer POV)
 
TWIMTBP is a very good program (for Nvidia), there is no denying that. The fact that your friends say that says shed loads about how good the marketting is! (as you say).

I'm just hoping prices will now blow that apart a bit and level the playing field again.

As for the ATI thing, it is a mixed bag of business choice plus luck. The economic downturn prob has a lot of people wanting to spend less, so probably helps ATI a fair bit. Still... being £200 -£300 under the price of your competitors card was obviously a big incentive lol.

ATI decided for "cheapness" to do the Lord of the rings style "One Chip To Rule Them All", and this time round it looks to have worked :D

Matthew
 
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I'd be interested in this. Still waiting on the final word on the 4870X2 but I have never really been a fan of dual GPU cards. If the new Nvidia card is offering descent performance increases at the right price I may well take it over an X2.

Martyn
 
I wouldn't count on Nvidia having made too much of a loss on the initial GTX series - they didn't sell that many and probably didn't produce too many either, knowing the 55nm shrink was only a short while away.
 
It is certainly a loss from there projected profit! Unless they come up with a substantially higher performing card, they will continue to make less money than predicted. That, is a serious blow for them, regardless of how you view how many cards they may have initially sold.

Anyway.. we are taking it off-topic. The discussion is about he 280+ :)

I don't actually see how it will perform 'that' much better even with a bit of an overclock.

Matthew
 
Scougar said:
It is certainly a loss from there projected profit! Unless they come up with a substantially higher performing card, they will continue to make less money than predicted. That, is a serious blow for them, regardless of how you view how many cards they may have initially sold.

Anyway.. we are taking it off-topic. The discussion is about he 280+ :)

I don't actually see how it will perform 'that' much better even with a bit of an overclock.

Matthew
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Die shrinks equal less heat and faster stable clocks. I would expect the GTX280+ to come with a 650Mhz core with the super overclocked ones coming in at 700Mhz+

That ought to put it 10% faster or so than current GTX280's (depnding on shader speed) and open up a bigger gap to the 4870 so long as they don't put too much of a price premium on them.

Isn't there rumours that it will have gddr5 memory as well?
 
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