Gun calibres, need an explanation

Lord Pablo · 19 Apr 2006 at 22:43

A quick question.

I am working on some 3D special effects, and i need to model some rifle ammunition.

I have the size of the ammunition used (5.56x45mm) but i do not know how this translates to dimensions, ie length, diameter.

If anyone could shed a bit of light on this, it would be much appreciated.

ta

Amp34 · 19 Apr 2006 at 22:45

5.56 is the diameter of the round (the bit that actually hits the target) in mm

Mic · 19 Apr 2006 at 22:46

Off topic...but wheres Feek :confused:

Lord Pablo · 19 Apr 2006 at 22:56

can i get the dimensions of the shell (i am making spent ammunition so dont need the "tip")

thanks

Neoni · 19 Apr 2006 at 23:02

yeh Where is feek?

benjo plz. · 19 Apr 2006 at 23:05

Nato rounds are 5.56 in diameter, the balls probably about 20mm long.

Lord Pablo said:
can i get the dimensions of the shell (i am making spent ammunition so dont need the "tip")

thanks

Ah ok, the cartridge is 57mm long and 9.7mm in diameter.

Aod · 20 Apr 2006 at 00:12

to be fair, i doubt that feek would have been able to help. i don't think that NATO ammo is available to non-MOD authorised persons.

pyro · 20 Apr 2006 at 01:00

Well not in this country anyway, but have a look at manufacturer's websites first, see if they have any graphs or whatever.

Shotgun_ned · 20 Apr 2006 at 01:21

Aod said:
to be fair, i doubt that feek would have been able to help. i don't think that NATO ammo is available to non-MOD authorised persons.

NATO ammo is only the military version of the Remington .223 round, which is available to anyone with a suitable FAC.

theleg · 20 Apr 2006 at 01:27

Shotgun_ned said:
NATO ammo is only the military version of the Remington .223 round, which is available to anyone with a suitable FAC.

but you dont use it in civilian rifles

usually

Shotgun_ned · 20 Apr 2006 at 01:29

Balddog said:
but you dont use it in civilian rifles usually

Why not? You can get rifles in pretty much any calibre as long as you have somewhere to shoot them.

theleg · 20 Apr 2006 at 01:31

Shotgun_ned said:
Why not? You can get rifles in pretty much any calibre as long as you have somewhere to shoot them.

because nato rounds are usually a little bigger..and can cause problems in civilian weapons.

Shotgun_ned · 20 Apr 2006 at 01:34

Balddog said:
because nato rounds are usually a little bigger..and can cause problems in civilian weapons.

Oh

. Didn't know that, learn something everyday..

theleg · 20 Apr 2006 at 01:35

Shotgun_ned said:
Oh . Didn't know that, learn something everyday..

wiki blurb said:
NATO specification ammunition is generally not safe to fire in .223 Remington-chambered rifles (which are mainly civilian sporting rifles). The chambers of weapons intended to take the NATO round are oversize relative to the civilian weapons to allow for greater variation in production (and hence reliability), and 'hotter' loads containing more propellant. By contrast, SAAMI-specification chambers are manufactured tighter (for accuracy), and 5.56 × 45 NATO ammunition, at the larger end of the manufacturers' tolerances, will be too tight and result in overpressure. This can cause excessive wear, or even theoretically cause parts of the rifle to rupture. Conversely, civilian .223 ammunition is perfectly safe to use in military rifles.

OP theres some pics of the catridges on wiki as well..might be useful

benjo plz. · 20 Apr 2006 at 01:48

AFAIK thats only with SAAMI .223 rifles, so non sports standard rifles should be able to fire 5.56 without overpressure. *shrugs*

Aod · 20 Apr 2006 at 01:55

Balddog said:
because nato rounds are usually a little bigger..and can cause problems in civilian weapons.

thats rubbish.

.223 Rem and 5.56x45 NATO are identical in dimensions (the NATO rounds tend to be +p or +p+)

that thing from Wiki, its true, but you're reading it in the wrong way.
the Chamber is not the round, its the metal block that the round goes into before being fired.

they are NOT usually bigger than their sproting Variants. the only military Firearms that i can think of that were/are manufactured like this are the British SMLE from WW1 and most of the AK-series. (the 10x series excluded from this)

that said, it still doesn't mean that its dangerous to fire Mil-ammo in civvy weapons, or to fire civvy-ammo in Mil-weapons, the worst thing that would happen in a case like this is that the brass would expand, and possible head separation on extraction, which is only a major problem if you reload brass.

pyro · 20 Apr 2006 at 03:00

^ Dude if the ammo is more powerful than what the chamber was designed to take you gonna get yourself a nasty kB! And bye bye remington...perhaps bye bye face as well

jegz · 20 Apr 2006 at 03:43

Neon said:
yeh Where is feek?

Quoted for truth

theleg · 20 Apr 2006 at 05:10

Aod said:
thats rubbish.

.223 Rem and 5.56x45 NATO are identical in dimensions (the NATO rounds tend to be +p or +p+)

that thing from Wiki, its true, but you're reading it in the wrong way.
the Chamber is not the round, its the metal block that the round goes into before being fired.

they are NOT usually bigger than their sproting Variants. the only military Firearms that i can think of that were/are manufactured like this are the British SMLE from WW1 and most of the AK-series. (the 10x series excluded from this)

that said, it still doesn't mean that its dangerous to fire Mil-ammo in civvy weapons, or to fire civvy-ammo in Mil-weapons, the worst thing that would happen in a case like this is that the brass would expand, and possible head separation on extraction, which is only a major problem if you reload brass.

Im not reading anything wrong..I know what a chamber is.

we arent talking about civilian variants we are talking about civilian weapons...IE hunting rifles and the like.

Im just going on what ive been told by active shooters :dunno:

DaveP3@ · 20 Apr 2006 at 07:48

Hi,

Just thought id add the following very quick post (work v soon)

You can use NATO ball in civi rifles, power really isnt an issue as the case can only hold so much propellant, its safe to say a .223 rife will be fine with mil spec ammo as long as its chambered correctly (5.56x45)

I put 100's of rounds of mil spec ammo thru my club guns without a problem.

www.peterlawman.co.uk

223 62g Radway Green Boxer-Primed 15.95 100

The above is mil surplus ammo, sold openly (cal/weight/maker/price/qty)

HTH,

Dave.