Harder driving tests considered

Mark A · 2 Jan 2007 at 20:41

Dashik said:
Wrong, Have you heard of the walking rule? Used to judge if you can cross the WHOLE width of the road in question? That's walk across mind not run.

yeah i was told about the walking rule today on my driving lesson

, which is usefull as at the moment i seem to be staling the car all the time.

I pay £20 per hour lesson and have 2 hours twice a week, also had 4 days worth of lessons in a row over christmas. I hope i wont have to have 120 hours worth though as thats £2400 :eek:

+ £1000 insurance + car :eek:

.

Jimmi · 2 Jan 2007 at 20:41

Dolph said:
Hmm, the 1.0 16v Micra did 0-60 in about 15.5 secs according to TG, which isn't nippy at all.

it was an L reg, if that makes any difference

as i said early to 50 and for round town use it was fine, it wouldnt beat much on a drag strip though.

and we're starting to go off on a bit of a tangent from the OP

Dashik · 2 Jan 2007 at 20:44

Tom|Nbk said:
As has been said this is pretty much unavoidable pulling out in busy traffic, a focus 1.6 WILL get going and make progress much faster than a Corsa 1.0, thus causing no delay or issues for the driver which is oncoming.

It not unavoudable, you have a choice. You could always wait but then I suppose driving patiently and safely is not very macho is it?

Anyway you cut it if your booting it out of a junction/racing to the roundabout to 'beat' the car coming round then your going too fast or in too much of a rush to be safe.

Think about your arguments guys, you all think driving faster/more powerful cars = safer.

Thats not the case, the case is its driver education/experiance and judgement that makes a safer driver, the car is almost irrellevant.

Oh and before anyone does take offence none of these remarks are in anyway personal as I dont know you and have not seen you driving etc, I'm generalising as much as possible in using your examples in attempt to point out how attiutudes can foster inaccurate and misleading beliefs.

Dashik · 2 Jan 2007 at 20:50

Mark A said:
yeah i was told about the walking rule today on my driving lesson , which is usefull as at the moment i seem to be staling the car all the time.

I pay £20 per hour lesson and have 2 hours twice a week, also had 4 days worth of lessons in a row over christmas. I hope i wont have to have 120 hours worth though as thats £2400 + £1000 insurance + car .

I just bet you stall at the move off as you are not keeping the gas set, lifting the clutch too far/too fast or a combination of the two. Try keeping the gas set and lift the clutch to the bite or just below and when its safe release the handbrake and then lift the clutch slowly about the thickness of a pound coin until the car is moving then keep your feet still a few seconds then lift the clutch the rest of the way when your are moving, no stalls and no Kangaroo either

Dolph · 2 Jan 2007 at 20:54

Dashik said:
First of all the original post was = "infact at a busy junction", no one mentioned roundabouts until later.

I never mentioned roundabouts either...

Wrong, Have you heard of the walking rule? Used to judge if you can cross the WHOLE width of the road in question? That's walk across mind not run.

If you can walk across the road then its safe to emerge.

If on emerging from a junction and you are not rushing to get out just in front of an oncoming car etc and you leave enough space as per the walking rule mentioned above then the oncomeing traffic can brake without doing an emergency stop if you stall they may be a bit annoyed but they can see you and act accordingly.

So the definition of safe in this context is = visible to others

I can only assume you don't drive the same roads I do... I'd still be stuck at the first junction of the day if I tried it that way in all honesty. It's certainly not how any of my advanced driving instructors have ever suggested doing it either (at least the way I'm interpreting your post), it's taking defensive driving to an extreme. You're not an IAM member by any chance are you? I've heard similar things from some of their instructors/members regarding suggestions that could only be described as overly hesistant.

I've always been taught to not sit on the white line (a couple of feet back at least) to give you room to stall just in case, then join traffic promptly without impeding it's flow. You also have to be aware of impeding the flow of traffic behind you. Still defensive, but nowhere near as hesistant as your suggestion would make you on busy roads.

So there is a gap that will be safe, are you suggesting that you never stall? If more drivers thought "what if" then they would be less likely to become statistics. Wheres the fire?

Of course I can stall, any driver can. That's why you give yourself room. However that doesn't make your idea the only one or indeed the best one (at least in the view of my ADI, who was also a police pursuit instructor).

But, I'm guessing we're not going to agree on this one somehow

Tom|Nbk · 2 Jan 2007 at 20:59

Dolph said:
But, I'm guessing we're not going to agree on this one somehow

Ive found with most of the ADI's that i used and my mates is that youll most likely always be outspoken by one, at least from my experience. Probably not worth arguing your point against him

Dolph · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:01

Dashik said:
Think about your arguments guys, you all think driving faster/more powerful cars = safer.

That wasn't my original argument, my argument was that faster cars can be more forgiving of mistakes at normal speeds, which isn't the same thing at all, and it's something that I stand by. Better brakes, better mechanical grip etc matter. Of course, the best solution is to not make mistakes in the first place, to improve your anticipation and observational skills to prevent such things, as I'm sure you're aware.

Thats not the case, the case is its driver education/experiance and judgement that makes a safer driver, the car is almost irrellevant.

Agree with you 100%. The car can only really make a difference when everything else has failed, you should not be relying on the car to get you out of trouble or to make things right.

Oh and before anyone does take offence none of these remarks are in anyway personal as I dont know you and have not seen you driving etc, I'm generalising as much as possible in using your examples in attempt to point out how attiutudes can foster inaccurate and misleading beliefs.

None taken at all, I think we're probably far more on the same page than we appear to be.

Mark A · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:11

Dashik said:
I just bet you stall at the move off as you are not keeping the gas set, lifting the clutch too far/too fast or a combination of the two. Try keeping the gas set and lift the clutch to the bite or just below and when its safe release the handbrake and then lift the clutch slowly about the thickness of a pound coin until the car is moving then keep your feet still a few seconds then lift the clutch the rest of the way when your are moving, no stalls and no Kangaroo either

Yep I'm not doing it as much anymore but every now and then ill lift the clutch too fast and stall. Was really embarrassing when a few people were at my house when my instructor turned up then i stalled

.

Dashik · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:13

Dolph said:
That wasn't my original argument, my argument was that faster cars can be more forgiving of mistakes at normal speeds, which isn't the same thing at all, and it's something that I stand by. Better brakes, better mechanical grip etc matter. Of course, the best solution is to not make mistakes in the first place, to improve your anticipation and observational skills to prevent such things, as I'm sure you're aware.

Agree with you 100%. The car can only really make a difference when everything else has failed, you should not be relying on the car to get you out of trouble or to make things right.

None taken at all, I think we're probably far more on the same page than we appear to be.

I agree, you have clarified your point better over the last two posts and in fact I cannot and would not argue them in the context that they now are.

My take on the original point was that it was implied that it was ok to rush out of the juntion and beat the oncoming traffic.

Just to be clear theres a difference between progressive and agressive driving.

I do not instruct my pupils to sit forever at a junction and in fact quite a few drivers get a surprise at just how smartly my learners get away from junctions and use the flexibity of the 1.6 Cooper's engine to get up to speed.

They frequently get left behind and have to speed to get past us

Thats the trouble with posting, contect and intent can get ambigious and what you mean does not nessesarily come across the way it is intended if you follow me.

Dashik · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:17

Tom|Nbk said:
Ive found with most of the ADI's that i used and my mates is that youll most likely always be outspoken by one, at least from my experience. Probably not worth arguing your point against him

Alternatively instead of thinking were all against you why not take on board advice from someone with an excellent pass rate, a high level of driver skills and nearly 30 years of driving cars and bikes. Or is that kind of experiance not valuable?

I make a point of not talking over my pupils but try to encorage them to my point of view by getting them to understand the 'why' of my point not to just do it because I say so!

ScoobyDoo69 · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:23

In all fairness my driving test was too easy. So I think this is a good thing. I think driving a variety of cars would be good too, just simply so that these people who say "the car is too big" can actually see how little difference the size makes when parking etc.
120 hours seems a bit strict, how about 40?
Either way, harder tests can only mean better drivers

Tom|Nbk · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:24

Dashik said:
Alternatively instead of thinking were all against you why not take on board advice from someone with an excellent pass rate, a high level of driver skills and nearly 30 years of driving cars and bikes. Or is that kind of experiance not valuable?

I make a point of not talking over my pupils but try to encorage them to my point of view by getting them to understand the 'why' of my point not to just do it because I say so!

Prehaps your in the minority then, because from my experience most ADI's i have met are rather arrogant. I by no means think your all against us normal drivers, but sometimes get the feeling that ADI's automatically think there better drivers or such just because they have that status.

. Please don't take offense just saying whats on my mind. Let's get back on topic.

Dashik · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:27

ScoobyDoo69 said:
In all fairness my driving test was too easy. So I think this is a good thing. I think driving a variety of cars would be good too, just simply so that these people who say "the car is too big" can actually see how little difference the size makes when parking etc.
120 hours seems a bit strict, how about 40?
Either way, harder tests can only mean better drivers

40 hours is barely enough at the moment some where between 60 and 120 is probably right tbh, largly depends as allways on the driver.

Did you know that in the highest risk group(Males, 17 to 25 i think is the ages) that the ones who are most likely to have an accident are the ones that passed there test with a small number of hours tuition and a low number of errors!!!

You Know the 'Natural' drivers that think they are highly skilled as they passed easily etc!

Duke · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:29

merlin said:
I'd suggest an IQ test too

Hope that was a joke.

ScoobyDoo69 · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:31

Yeah I know the "Natural Driver" term, I've been called it on several occasions by friends.. I always say, "no, I just know when to be sensible when driving and actually pay attention because I enjoy it"
I passed first time with 4minors and I do not think I am a great driver, yes I think I'm "good" but if I didn't I think I'd be too nervous to drive. Imagine trying to drive when you have no confidence that you can do it well? :eek:

ScoobyDoo69 · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:32

Duke said:
Hope that was a joke.

I hope it wasn't.
Dumb drivers take dumb risks - intelligent drivers seem to think a fair bit more before they even consider doing something risky..

Dashik · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:36

Tom|Nbk said:
Prehaps your in the minority then, because from my experience most ADI's i have met are rather arrogant. I by no means think your all against us normal drivers, but sometimes get the feeling that ADI's automatically think there better drivers or such just because they have that status. . Please don't take offense just saying whats on my mind. Let's get back on topic.

I dont take offense, Indeed I am the first to admit I could be a better driver, But I would say I am a better driver than most but I am always learning.

I just hate arrogant knowitall ADI's and hope to god if I ever turn into one of those that somebody shoots me! If your ADI is arrogant maybe its time for a change?

I do the job because I love it and like the people I meet doing it, not just for the money! I just hope I pass enough on so that the CUSTOMERS stay alive long enough to benifit from the training etc.

My pet hate is ADI's that dont give a monkeys and just take the money and rattle through the training asap and rush to test not caring about wether the pupil is safe or not.

I am the first to tell the pupil if the mistake is because I mad a poor instruction or if its there fault, I dont blame them for my mistakes and yes, good as I am (According to the DSA) I make mistakes ! But hopefully not big ones!

Jimmi · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:37

ScoobyDoo69 said:
I hope it wasn't.
Dumb drivers take dumb risks - intelligent drivers seem to think a fair bit more before they even consider doing something risky..

In that case can we ban women from the roads as well

Duke · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:37

So only people with "a low IQ" have (or are more likely to have) accidents then?

ScoobyDoo69 · 2 Jan 2007 at 21:39

Duke said:
So only people with "a low IQ" have (or are more likely to have) accidents then?

No, and I didn't say that either. But would you feel safe with someone at the wheel who isn't aware of anything going on around them?

Ban women from driving? I wish, they seem to be the main drivers who lack manners to say thanks !