Hardware Unboxed: Why No ReBAR Testing?

tommybhoy · 28 Dec 2021 at 23:07

edit Rebar starts @16.30

Steve wasn't looking his usual 'couldn't give a Castlemain XXXX' self!

He contradicts his own data a few times too.

Just say it Steve, like RT'ing, it gives one vendor an advantage!

How you can test one vendors feature set(DLSS) but not one of AMD's feature set(SAM), doesn't shine you in the brightest light, imo it's stubbornness over bias.

arc@css · 28 Dec 2021 at 23:23

I haven't looked at that many benchmarks but does it really make that much difference?

I didn't think it did at this early stage.

gpuerrilla · 28 Dec 2021 at 23:29

It clearly does when it comes to games like Valhalla which are used as a 'benchmark' score. So what Tommy is referring to is when DLSS is available, showing how much better 30 series cards score in the same benchmarks.. yet when AMD can use SAM to boost a score 5-20% HU Steve cba running the settings.

tommybhoy · 28 Dec 2021 at 23:42

In terms of gaming, yes it can be the difference between winning and losing @arc@css

@gpuerrilla exactly, if you can retest with DLSS to show advantage to one vendor, you should be showing AMD's SAM advantage- you turn it on in the bios, most of Steve's viewers know how to turn it on, it's not as if you have to make multiple SS comparisons to pixel peep, it's like for like.

gpuerrilla · 28 Dec 2021 at 23:52

Unfortunately, if you jump back a couple of months it was HU crying about treatment they received from nvidia where the tuber community like tech jesus and j2cents and how quickly can that damage repair...

If you watch that review of the best gpu (link below) it was cringe watching them both basically recommend all the 30 series stack ultimately concluding that 'cos you get DLSS and full RT. That's it. No mention of how good the rasterisation of AMD's cards win on especially what about all them games where you cant use DLSS or lack of RT - which is strange as their opinion was the polar opposite at the beginning of the year!

loftie · 28 Dec 2021 at 23:54

tommybhoy said:
How you can test one vendors feature set(DLSS) but not one of AMD's feature set(SAM), doesn't shine you in the brightest light, imo it's stubbornness over bias.

He answered why. Rebar doesn't help in every situation, it's not a fire and forget setting, DLSS (AFAIK) is. Quality aside, which they've pulled it up on many times before. AFAIK, rebar is only enabled/disabled in bios, which means it's far more faff to turn on/off than say DLSS. I wouldn't start messing about with rebar if I go from one game that favours it to another that hates it, I'd pick an option and stick with it.

That said, if they're testing a singular game, like when they did Battlefield or Halo, then I do think they should include some rebar testing to show whether the game benefits or not from it. Then people can make up their own mind

gpuerrilla · 29 Dec 2021 at 00:04

loftie said:
That said, if they're testing a singular game, like when they did Battlefield or Halo, then I do think they should include some rebar testing to show whether the game benefits or not from it. Then people can make up their own mind

Well this is it. But if you have that test procedure, stick to the simple and don't show DLSS results or as you have said, when possible just thrown in the one slide needed to say 'oh btw if you want to see the SAM results..' for consistency. As it stands he is making poor decisions and digging deeper holes for himself lately, yet shouts loud when someone else drops a ball.

From the end of the video reading between the squirming it sounds like they will adopt the change in next years testing as quite a lot of noise was made to make them see some sense in their ways.

loftie · 29 Dec 2021 at 00:12

gpuerrilla said:
Well this is it. But if you have that test procedure, stick to the simple and don't show DLSS results or as you have said, when possible just thrown in the one slide needed to say 'oh btw if you want to see the SAM results..' for consistency. As it stands he is making poor decisions and digging deeper holes for himself lately, yet shouts loud when someone else drops a ball.

From the end of the video reading between the squirming it sounds like they will adopt the change in next years testing as quite a lot of noise was made to make them see some sense in their ways.

Skimming through the battlefield video, there are no dlss results even though the game supports it. Halo doesn't support it - i should probably have checked that before i bothered flicking through the video

tommybhoy · 29 Dec 2021 at 01:57

loftie said:
He answered why. Rebar doesn't help in every situation, it's not a fire and forget setting, DLSS (AFAIK) is. Quality aside, which they've pulled it up on many times before. AFAIK, rebar is only enabled/disabled in bios, which means it's far more faff to turn on/off than say DLSS. I wouldn't start messing about with rebar if I go from one game that favours it to another that hates it, I'd pick an option and stick with it.

That said, if they're testing a singular game, like when they did Battlefield or Halo, then I do think they should include some rebar testing to show whether the game benefits or not from it. Then people can make up their own mind

I run Nv Rebar enabled.

It's enabled/disabled driver side by Nv game dependant.

If it works it's enabled if it doesn't it's disabled.

Its that simple, I'm never going to disable extra performance when I don't have to do anything past enabling it one time in the bios.

I'm clearly not Steve and I don't run AMD, but you can turn it on/off in the AMD CP, I imagine you can set game profiles to automate the process, but again I'm not Steve and wouldn't know that.

Trick · 29 Dec 2021 at 09:11

gpuerrilla · 29 Dec 2021 at 10:23

Link to their discord?

Harlequin · 29 Dec 2021 at 10:42

Ian Cutress also has to correct them on E cores for Alder Lake

Nexus18 · 29 Dec 2021 at 11:07

Oh lord some BS in here too. FFS @TNA :cry:

You can see their perfectly valid reasoning i.e. all the different configurations you can have with hardware, certain platforms not having "official" support etc. and from their testing, turns out SAM isn't just a switch on and instant 20+% boost in "all" games like some would have you believe..... Interesting to see SAM even harms some games performance according to their testing.... For their game special videos i.e. halo, they should do a section testing for rebar/sam too though.

Unfortunately some people conveniently forget that they have called out all of nvidias shenanigans too and have many times slated dlss, RT, vram etc. etc. but no, it doesn't fit certain peoples narrative so lets keep the fingers in the ears :cry:

loftie · 29 Dec 2021 at 11:09

tommybhoy said:
I run Nv Rebar enabled.

It's enabled/disabled driver side by Nv game dependant.

If it works it's enabled if it doesn't it's disabled.

Its that simple, I'm never going to disable extra performance when I don't have to do anything past enabling it one time in the bios.

I'm clearly not Steve and I don't run AMD, but you can turn it on/off in the AMD CP, I imagine you can set game profiles to automate the process, but again I'm not Steve and wouldn't know that.

TIL. Didn't think it could be enabled/disabled in Windows. It's that in GeForce experience or Nvidia control panel? I'd imagine AMD have something similar. Unfortunately my 580 system can't use rebar so I don't know.

Harlequin · 29 Dec 2021 at 11:20

Nexus18 said:
Oh lord some BS in here too. FFS @TNA

You can see their perfectly valid reasoning i.e. all the different configurations you can have with hardware, certain platforms not having "official" support etc. and from their testing, turns out SAM isn't just a switch on and instant 20+% boost in "all" games like some would have you believe..... Interesting to see SAM even harms some games performance according to their testing.... For their game special videos i.e. halo, they should do a section testing for rebar/sam too though.

Unfortunately some people conveniently forget that they have called out all of nvidias shenanigans too and have many times slated dlss, RT, vram etc. etc. but no, it doesn't fit certain peoples narrative so lets keep the fingers in the ears

Linux has had resizeable bar since 2015 (for Intel that was Skylake and the higher end chipsets and for AMD that would be FM2+ and Kaveri)

Game · 29 Dec 2021 at 12:11

loftie said:
Skimming through the battlefield video, there are no dlss results even though the game supports it. Halo doesn't support it - i should probably have checked that before i bothered flicking through the video

the last BF2042 performance roundup said the DLSS made little to no difference in game on any setting I think its an option but not fully implemented

Nexus18 · 29 Dec 2021 at 12:14

Game said:
the last BF2042 performance roundup said the DLSS made little to no difference in game on any setting I think its an option but not fully implemented

Not played that pos since release day so not sure if something has changed? But it defo improved my perf, screenshot from release day:

Everything max @ 3440x1440, no dlss:

max and dlss quality

Game · 29 Dec 2021 at 12:19

would assume it still played badly

I know people are still moaning about performance its not great but most of my issues now seem to be server side consistent 110 fps

Nexus18 · 29 Dec 2021 at 12:25

Game said:
would assume it still played badly

I know people are still moaning about performance its not great but most of my issues now seem to be server side consistent 110 fps

Can't say I had any real issues with perf. at release, it certainly wasn't performing as well as what I would have liked given its graphics compared to bf 1 and bf 5 though..... In terms of netcode/server latency, it was pretty poor though!

tommybhoy · 29 Dec 2021 at 13:12

loftie said:
TIL. Didn't think it could be enabled/disabled in Windows. It's that in GeForce experience or Nvidia control panel? I'd imagine AMD have something similar. Unfortunately my 580 system can't use rebar so I don't know.

Nvidia Rebar, it's fully automatic once enabled in bios, there is zero user input-unless you want to delve deaper and manually switch it on/off with NvInspector.

Amd CP for Sam is a simple universal toggle switch or save game profiles.