Headphones and Gaming - My findings.

[tizer2000uk]

Having auditioned loads and loads of headsets and soundcards in the search for surround sound gaming nirvana that would not break the bank and more importantly allow me to play in relative silence to allow my wife to get some sleep, led me to a simple conclusion:

Audio products generally targeted toward the gaming market are mostly crap and overpriced, they are generally designed with style rather than substance. I know that a lot of people might think that view to be a little harsh but it is true.

Over the last 10 or so years I have owned the most highly rated sound systems that Altec Lansing, Klipsch, Creative and Logitech have had to offer. Most are designed to deliver brute force over sound quality but are suitable for their intended purpose, when you factor in all round ability then their weaknesses become apparent.

I have sifted my way through a vast number of soundcards promising amazing sound quality and finally settled with a system which I have found to give fantastic music quality, very accurate gaming surround sound, and a great deal of comfort and all for about £260.00.

For that same price you could buy an 'ASUS Xonar Essence' soundcard plus some 'Sennheiser PC 350' cans and still not come close to the sound and all-round abilities of the setup below.

Don't get me wrong the Asus card is a little belter, it just falls short on the 3d processing and other features of the X-FI, and costs a packet more. The Sennheiser cans are also well overpriced for what they deliver, they are just using their name to help shift numbers to a largely naive market.

The magic components that make up my system are:

X-FI Xtreme Music: Unbeatable for headphone surround sound processing within games. The low price also helps.

Beresford TC-7510 DAC: This little beauty takes the digital feed from the X-Fi and feeds it either through its own built in headphone amplifier or the line out ports on the rear of the unit avoiding the questionable quality of the X-FI analogue stage altogether. It is also used as an upgrade to sound systems costing thousands!

Grado SR80 Headphones: Award winning audiophile cans deliver a fantastic amount of detail which is paramount for recreating a 3d soundstage. Like most audiophile cans they also require adequate amplification, something no soundcard or pc speaker phone-out can do justice to. Plugging decent cans into the headphone outputs on any pc speakers or soundcard is a travesty and should be punishable by a lifetime listening to 'Steps'

The set up is very very revealing and extracts a lot of detail out of the source material which mean that mp3's will sound noticeably more compressed than lossless recordings or cd's. Some complain of the bass light delivery of Grado cans in general which for the most part is true, for me however they deliver just pitch perfect tight bass which never sounds overblown or boomy. Sound quality wise they kick all gaming headsets into a cocked hat, period.

The only thing the headphones lack is a microphone, many cheap desk microphones will be more than capable of doing the job.

For gaming, they deliver a fantastic soundstage with sounds coming from all directions including up and down.

Many a time have I been called a cheat for knowing exactly where cloaked spies are in TF2 and also for being able to shoot Boomers, Hunters and Smokers through walls and ceilings in Left 4 Dead. I havent had or needed to go back to my gaming speakers since I purchased this system so a set of Z-5500's are now for sale.

 

[-Ad-]

Sorry but I gave up after you recommended Grados as the perfect gaming headphones. They are not recommended for gaming in the slightest, solely because of their stupidly narrow soundstage or 'headstage' as many people call it. The SR80s benefit slightly from an amp, but you can't get better Grados for gaming until you hit something like the 225s.

I have the HF-1 and they are a lot better when using my SS/valve Millett MAx amp out of a modified emu 0404 soundcard with custom RCA cable. Even with a great setup lke that my koss ksc-75 clip ons still give a better soundstage than my grados, and I normally use my senn HD25-II for gaming. But the main point Im trying to put across is that there are many other brands of headphones out there that are much better for pure gaming purposes, something you should really try out

Now onto senns, they certainly arn't overpriced, especially when you consider their topo of the line 600 or 650 phones which are stunning value at just under £200 compared to the top of the line Grados costing £500 and a lot more. Put with a slee solo or cheap Darkvoice 336i/se vavle amp, these become stunning, and ata total cost (inc the DV 336) for under £400, a setup I will personally be buying to be my 'relaxing' setup with my Grado setup being for my electronica and 'in your face' !!!

If people want great value entry level Grados (under the 225), then I can only recommend the Alessandro MS-1 direct from alessandro in the USA. Couldn't tell much between the SR125 and the MS-1 which are stunning value even with the screwed up pound.

And finally....... CLAIMED and welcome to Ocuk, just stay away from General Discussion

 

[HeX]

Also I would have to disagree with the X-Fi CMSS Positional Audio being better than the Xonars Dolby Headphone.

From my experience Dolby Headphone is far more accurate at doing virtual surround sound through stereo headphones.

 

[tizer2000uk]

Maybe just my ears but...

My beef was only with the Sennheiser 'high end' gaming headset, the 595's etc are in a different league but make my ears to hot and sweaty, the Grados's I can wear all day with the added benefit of being able to hear the doorbell or my wife announcing dinner has landed in the bin.

Regarding soundcards, no card I have heard can give an all encompassing soundstage like the X-Fi, the Dolby Headphone stuff just gives a 360 soundstage but can't quite tell me effectively enough that their is something above or below me.

Also the point of my system was for me to find a sound system to better the best "gaming" sound systems at the same price as high end gaming kit. Also the MS1's are good and do provide a good soundstage, I just found the SR-80's bass was just a bit sweeter and the overall sound a little more balanced, there isn't much in it unsurprisingly and the Grado's were more freely available to purchase. As for the HF-1, rarer than hens teeth. As for the Koss clip ons, just can't deliver the amount of detail I like in game. Admitedly it wasn't the clip ons I tried it was an over the ear set.

Because the Grados deliver so much detail it makes it very easy to hear specific sounds or threats if you like through all the gunfire and noise, normal gaming gear can't deliver that.

After you are done with gaming, the very same Grado's sound amazing with music.

Regarding the Slee Solo amp, yep if my budget at the time could have stretched to that and the 325's I would have been a happy man! It's on my to-buy list.

 

[Margaret]

Regarding soundcards, no card I have heard can give an all encompassing soundstage like the X-Fi, the Dolby Headphone stuff just gives a 360 soundstage but can't quite tell me effectively enough that their is something above or below me.

Using Dolby Headphone via my Xonar DX I have heard Zombies/Smokers/Hunters above and below me with great ease on Left 4 Dead, same goes for footsteps on CoD4.

 

[-Ad-]

My beef was only with the Sennheiser 'high end' gaming headset, the 595's etc are in a different league but make my ears to hot and sweaty, the Grados's I can wear all day with the added benefit of being able to hear the doorbell or my wife announcing dinner has landed in the bin.

Ahh the gaming headsets, agree with you 100% on that. Senn phones are heavier and more comfortable for most people, but as you have said can get a little sweaty. Grados WILL be uncomfortable to start with for quite a while, and for extended periods your ears will actually hurt. But that is only something a lady should worry about, us men should just ignore the pain, and once your ears have got used to them and changed shape then Grados will turn out to be very comfy indeed.

As for the HF-1, rarer than hens teeth. .

Yup, and they cured my upgraditus, got a pair just before they stopped producing them, lovely #427

Because the Grados deliver so much detail it makes it very easy to hear specific sounds or threats if you like through all the gunfire and noise, normal gaming gear can't deliver that.

After you are done with gaming, the very same Grado's sound amazing with music.

They are stupidly detailed, and that does help, but for me the soudstage isn't quite good enough. With my amp and modded soundcardd they can be pretty good in css, but the senns are just that much better in giving you that 'Audio wallhax'. It's great following people through walls when getting used to your headphones and realising where they are just from the sound. Noobie server admins can be a problem though, especially if specing you

Regarding the Slee Solo amp, yep if my budget at the time could have stretched to that and the 325's I would have been a happy man! It's on my to-buy list.

SOLO is gorgeous with the HD600 and 650, but is quite expensive. I would consider the darkvoice 336 with some extra tybes as by all accounts it rocks. I would also NOT recommend the grado 325i, very very harsh and bright, just taken they sound signature of grado too far with them, and are not nice to listen to at all. Miss them and jump straight to the HF-1 or RS1

 

[Uriel]

Having used both CMSS (XtremeMusic) and Dolby Headphone (Xonar D2) I preferred the latter. Still - these algorithms are approximations of what we experience in terms of directional sound and I think different models will work better for different people.

I agree that the XtremeMusic needs something better to amplify headphones and think you've certainly come up with an interesting solution.

Just wondering - tizer2000uk - have you tried the Xonar Essence? If not - what cards have you heard dolby headphone on? I'm not sure about differences between Xonars but there is a huge difference between its implementation on a Xonar and an EEEPC, for example.

 

[C64]

You obviously haven't really tried many headphones then as Grado's have no sound stage what so ever.

I wouldn't go near any senns under the HD600 The goldring DR150 are better than any of them at a cheaper price especially unamped.

I think most of the senn fans are people new to expensive phones and senns are their first pairs.

I found the senn HD555 and HD595 utter pants compared to the Goldring DR150 through an mp3 player or x-fi, probably because senns really need an amp.

 

[tizer2000uk]

I have tried plenty of phones, I first started with the Senns and worked my way through a plethora of overhyped rubbish aimed at the mp3 crowd, I personally buy audiophile brand cd's and try to stay as far away from compressed stuff where possible. So my choice in cans was not one I took lightly or quickly, we are talking a few months of weekends trekking around hi-fi stores and taking advantage of a number of 30 day home trial offers. In the end I came to a conclusion that when you choose a set of cans you like, you are most likely to do so when listening to music that you listen to fairly often and know well, for me it was 'Pink Floyd - Division Bell', on a good set of cans the guitars at the end along with the drums and the soaring basslines sounded awesome on the Grado's, on the 600's it sounded a bit out of sorts. There wasn't a lot in it, just enough to tell me that I would not enjoy listening to them as much as I would with the Grado's, the other no no was the Sennheisers demand for good amplification, the fact they are harder to drive means that they will need to be driven harder by lower end amps and therefore present me with the possibility that background hiss would interfere, with the Grado's they play fairly well on the soundcard output which means at modest volume they will deliver more detail.

Listening to these cd's on a wide variety of phones brought me to the conclusions I have already reached: The Grado's sound fantastic, they do have a fantastic soundstage when partnered with the right kit and bring out amazing subtleties in music unheard on most other phones. Take the 'The Heather Nova - South' album I am listening to right now, on my Sony phones the sound is pleasant enough, it carries a decent enough tune, good bass and vocals etc, the sound however lacks the Grado's resolution to enable me to 'see' instrument sections or hear the vocal inflections and Heather Nova's intake of breath before she starts a new verse. To some people this type of sound is rather clinical, for me its fantastic. The Senns, especially the 595's have a completely different character and the one thing that contributes is the fact that the earpieces completely isolate the ears, one thing the Grado's cannot do. In a room with a pc or moderately noisy environment, the Grado's let in a lot of external noise which colours the sound, in a quiet environment to my ears at least I haven't heard a single pair of Senns or any other cans for that matter come close to the sound or space on the GS-1000 on a Graham Slee Solo amp. I was this > . < close to spending a chunk of the bathroom fund.

Regarding the Goldrings, I unfortunately did not get to listen to a pair that had been broken in, just brand new out of the pack and like most headphones that have not been broken in they sounded a bit off, I have however heard good things of them.

As for the Xonar Essence, yes that was the one I listened to and it is a very good card, its just the X-Fi Xtreme Music cost £100 or so less and via the digital ouput and into my dac sounds as good in my opinion. There is however no doubt the Xonar has a much much better analogue stage and if you dont have a dac and headphone amp its a good choice.

I should also mention that you need to search high and low to find the ideal settings on the X-Fi card when using headphones, the correct settings for gameplay are thus:

Windows Sound:

7.1

Creative Console

Game Mode > Speakers > Headphones > Untick 'synchronise with windows control panel'

Eax Effects On > X-FI CMSS 3D, Elevation filter on, Macro FX On. > Crystalizer Off

In games sound setting set to 7.1.

Just leaving the default settings with Game Mode and headphones sounds terrible, a mistake many people make.

 

[Rroff]

Haven't read all the way through but... for me ultimate gaming performance including surround sound effects came from a simple pair of sennheiser MX550 streetwears (forget the reviews they DO do good bass if you feed them properly).

I also did what the last poster did and windows sound: 7.1 and headphone mode in creative console - but I turned off CMSS-3D on my x-fi as I found it gave the sound a "close" and muddy image - even tho the elevation filter gives better vertical placement.

For me this gives amazing sound quality for the price, very tight sound with a bass that is both crisp and deep. You could do better but not without spending hundreds of pounds.

Wish there was a way to tweak CMSS-3D as with a wider soundscape it would probably be perfect for positional audio in multi-channel games.

EDIT: Just changed the creative console from headphone to 2.1 and CMSS-3D sounds much much better overall - tho theres a slight positional artifact when the positional audio test passes through where stereo speakers would be infront of you... but for the clearer sound quality and elevation effects I can probably live with that.