Heating an old house-How would you do it?

Orionaut · 22 Mar 2019 at 17:23

Consider the hypothetical scenario.

The house is old (Pre-war/1950's/whatever) and constitutes a "Fixer-Upper" in need of full renovation.

There is currently no central heating (Previous owners used either open fires, Gas fires, or electric heaters)

Would you install conventional gas fired wet central heating?

Or would you go down a different route

eg, Some sort of air sourced heat pump system, retaining the solid fuel but with more efficient modern stoves, Night storage heaters, Something else

And/or any combination of the above.

chrcoluk · 22 Mar 2019 at 17:27

In my experience storage heaters are horrid, I feel even a 1kw portable heater is more efficient.

One thing I learned is for sure any air leaks need sorting first, so things that leak in cold drafts etc.

Then after that it depends if you want to install central heating if no, then I would use electric heaters or gas fires.

Minstadave · 22 Mar 2019 at 17:31

Mining rigs in every room!

Jez · 22 Mar 2019 at 17:58

If the house can get mains gas, then jump on it and install a wet heating system and a megaflo style pressurised tank. People with mains gas dont realise how good they have it

Doobedoo · 22 Mar 2019 at 18:11

I would guess it depends on your budget.

Gas central would be best but would come at quite a cost. Forget about night storage heaters they are rubbish, I refuse to use ours so instead installed an air source heat pump for the front room and just use a electric heater in our bedroom.

alexakasloth · 22 Mar 2019 at 18:19

We have a suspended floor and get a draught through the floor boards due to gaps, considering changing them to toungue and groove.

Terminal_Boy · 22 Mar 2019 at 18:36

Gas. You’ll be having the floors up anyway.

Insulate and board the loft while you’re at it.

samcat · 22 Mar 2019 at 21:50

insulate, insulate, insulate. Loft, EWI, Floor.
And gas central heating with normal radiators (slightly oversized for each room, with TRV)

Quartz · 22 Mar 2019 at 22:44

Orionaut said:
Would you install conventional gas fired wet central heating?

I'd sort out insulation, double-glazing, and the like first. Then you'll be able to determine your heating requirements.

darael · 22 Mar 2019 at 22:48

Insulate, but within reason. These houses need to breath in order to let the moist, used air out. If you insulate them like crazy and hinder their ability to breath, you may see mould problems - particularly on the outside walls, where the moisture is trying to escape, but stuff like poor wallpapering or wall insulation can stop it.

Here is a link to Peter Ward on Youtube - his videos will give you an idea of what I mean.

chrcoluk · 23 Mar 2019 at 06:12

darael said:
Insulate, but within reason. These houses need to breath in order to let the moist, used air out. If you insulate them like crazy and hinder their ability to breath, you may see mould problems - particularly on the outside walls, where the moisture is trying to escape, but stuff like poor wallpapering or wall insulation can stop it.

Here is a link to Peter Ward on Youtube - his videos will give you an idea of what I mean.

Thats why you open windows to have air circulation.

You open the windows every so often in winter to circulate air, perhaps keep them open all the time in summer.

a1ex2001 · 23 Mar 2019 at 08:00

chrcoluk said:
Thats why you open windows to have air circulation.

You open the windows every so often in winter to circulate air, perhaps keep them open all the time in summer.

You would need them open every day in winter which is kind of defeating the purpose of draft proofing and insulating. Old houses need to breathe it is as simple as that!

b0rn2sk8 · 23 Mar 2019 at 08:36

I wouldn’t consider the open fires going forward, if you live in a town you soon won’t be able to use them anyway because of the air pollution. Likewise standard electric heating is rubbish and expensive.

Insulation is key if you want to keep the bills low once you have renovated. As others have said you would need to ensure it is properly considered and systems in place to deal with the moisture like heat recovery ventilation.

Heat pumps systems (preferably ground source) are the future and probally the most environmentally friendly solution but you really need to insulate well for them to be effective. New builds past 2025 will not be connected to the gas mains so will be pretty much using these. They can also do cooling in the summer which is nice and I think they deal with moisture but don’t quote me on that. Will have a higher upfront cost but may work out lower in the long run, all depends on how the price of gas and electric goes. Unlike gas you do have the ability to make your own electricity via solar if you can take the upfront cost.

As someone said above the gas un-vented central heating with a pressurised megaflow cylinder are the best gas can offer. I have one and it has pretty much ruined taking a shower anywhere that doesn’t have a pressurised cylinder. This is an attractive solution if you have gas available.

Participant · 23 Mar 2019 at 08:36

The answer to the question depends on a whole load of considerations and factors that we don't have information about.

For example, what's the objective? Do up cheap and sell asap, or create a long-term proposition for modern living? Is there a budget? Will the insulation be brought up to scratch? Will the property have (or does it already have) solar panels? Where exactly is this property?

b0rn2sk8 said:
As someone said above the gas un-vented central heating with a pressurised megaflow cylinder are the best gas can offer.

Just to mention you don't need gas with an unvented cylinder. What you do need is sufficient water pressure and flow for a good shower, something that's far from guaranteed in an old doer upper.

SPG · 23 Mar 2019 at 08:55

If no cavity walls.

Windows
External doors (replace)
Insulate loft

Take all walls back to bare walls and use thermal plasterboard.

Gas central heating
Laminate or carpet with underalay

Sorted.

Psycho Sonny · 23 Mar 2019 at 09:09

Do you have access to free or cheap wood - then a stove

Do you have access to solar panels - then a dyson heating fan during the day for main room get a ground source heat pump for the rest of the house.

If not then gas. But I would also insulate as much as possible and install vents where suitable to get rid of condensation the main culprits being bathrooms and kitchens. If you leave doors open internally then that will help condensation move around and out. We dry all our clothes inside the house on radiators and never had issues with condensation or damp.

UTT · 23 Mar 2019 at 09:35

Underfloor heating throughout.

Retro fit ground floor, spreader plates for first floor.

Works with gas boiler, heat pump, etc

b0rn2sk8 · 23 Mar 2019 at 09:40

Psycho Sonny said:
Do you have access to free or cheap wood - then a stove

Depending on where the house is you may have local laws that restrict what you can do or could be subject to future upcoming restrictions which completely eliminate their use. Not a great plan IMO.

https://www.gov.uk/smoke-control-area-rules

https://www.ft.com/content/0e367636-a205-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce36e4

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46823440

chrcoluk · 23 Mar 2019 at 09:50

a1ex2001 said:
You would need them open every day in winter which is kind of defeating the purpose of draft proofing and insulating. Old houses need to breathe it is as simple as that!

I have aweful draft here. But not in every room.

So basically I can open a window clean the air, shut it again, reheat the room, once its heated the heat will stay quite well.
In a room with bad drafts, you have to keep the heating persistently on to maintain temperature, the cost will be way more.

You dont need to have a window consistently open to have clean air at all. Open every day? maybe but it would only be long enough to freshen up the air.

Whilst a draft doesnt clean the air, you still need to open windows anyway to circulate the air to clean it out. The only affect it has is to make it much harder to heat your house up and ultimately more expensive.

Also yeah I agree gas central heating is the way to go but for some reason the OP doesnt want to do that (I guess due to upfront cost?).

Failing that gas fires would be probably the best option, but I think portable heaters are better than storage heaters.

a1ex2001 · 23 Mar 2019 at 10:15

chrcoluk said:
I have aweful draft here. But not in every room.

So basically I can open a window clean the air, shut it again, reheat the room, once its heated the heat will stay quite well.
In a room with bad drafts, you have to keep the heating persistently on to maintain temperature, the cost will be way more.

You dont need to have a window consistently open to have clean air at all. Open every day? maybe but it would only be long enough to freshen up the air.

Whilst a draft doesnt clean the air, you still need to open windows anyway to circulate the air to clean it out. The only affect it has is to make it much harder to heat your house up and ultimately more expensive.

Also yeah I agree gas central heating is the way to go but for some reason the OP doesnt want to do that (I guess due to upfront cost?).

Failing that gas fires would be probably the best option, but I think portable heaters are better than storage heaters.

How does a draft not clean the air? It is fresh air being drawn in from outside? If you have a gas fire, open fire or log burner a draft is essential for exactly that reason and sealing up and heating old houses is a well documented cause of damp. I’m not advocating a mega draft house but an old home particularly one with solid walls needs to breath.