Help a squatter out!

manic111

manic111

manic111

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I had a session with the physio the other night, as I've been having some knee problems. He said that, in terms of injury, I should heal fine, but that my functional core strength is poor and it's affecting my ability to squat with good form. I tend to lean forward a long way, or I lose my balance and topple backwards, even without weights.

I've done a bit of reading around, and it seems that goblet squats and suitcase deadlifts are a couple of good exercises to start with - I tried them out last night, and my core knows about it, so it seems to be the way forward!

Anyway, I have a couple of questions:
1. What other good "functional" core exercises are there? I've always done the usual planking, crunches, leg raises etc (and deadlifts), but evidently this hasn't helped me out too much.

2. As I can't squat properly currently, is it worth continuing to try to do so, or should I fix my core first and then get back to it?

3. I'm pretty sure that I play more sport and work my core more than half of the guys I see squatting at the gym - how come I'm having these problems and they aren't? Have they all done loads of core work in the past? Or am I just unlucky? (I'm not bothered, but it's interesting!) For those of you who squat big, do you do a lot of core work to complement it?

Thanks!
 
Although core strength is important, there's more to staying upright in the squat than just that. There's form (not letting knees cave in, getting knees out so hips can drop down etc) and more importantly, you don't need any core strength to bodyweight squat to depth; it should be a natural movement/position for a human being to be able to get into. If you can't, then you probably have some mobility issues you need to sort out? Ankles, hips, that kind of thing. /awaitsthemobilityexpertstochimein
 
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Somnambulist said:
Although core strength is important, there's more to staying upright in the squat than just that. There's form (not letting knees cave in, getting knees out so hips can drop down etc) and more importantly, you don't need any core strength to bodyweight squat to depth; it should be a natural movement/position for a human being to be able to get into. If you can't, then you probably have some mobility issues you need to sort out? Ankles, hips, that kind of thing. /awaitsthemobilityexpertstochimein
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I asked one of the personal trainers to have a look last night, and he said that my glute medius was weak, which was another issue.

I also tried putting my heels on a couple of small weight plates (think they were 1.25kg ones, so probably only a couple of cm thick), and had no problems, and could get pretty low. It seems balance related rather than mobility related, although I appreciate the two are linked.
 
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Take a video and post it in the 'Form' thread.

By the sound of it, it sounds like you don't really have any awareness of what your body is doing... as a result:

- Your balance will ruin any lift you actually do;
- You won't know when you're blowing your core out during a lift;
- You won't be able to see the weakpoints in your form (thorax dropping forward, knees coming in, etc.).

So...

Post a video and we can see.

Plates under your heels is a useful workaround for rubbish mobility, but it's only a workaround: not a solution. You probably have bad mobility, too, and are not trying to address it. Based on your description, it sounds like you have some big problems with your hip flexors, TFL, and other stuff, too.

Essentially, what I am saying is we will:

a) Need to see a video to understand quite what you're talking about;
b) See how far back you need to go from a weight/technique perspective. Because I suspect quite a lot is shot I am afraid. :(
 
Read the form thread and mobility thread.

Disregarding your physio for a second, the most likely issue here is poor ankle flexibility.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I'll get a video up next time I'm squatting, probably over the weekend.

Mrthingy, you may be right that I need to go a long way backwards, but that's fine - I've never squatted particularly heavily anyway and want to get it right!

What does "TFL" stand for, incidentally?
 
manic111 said:
Thanks for the advice guys. I'll get a video up next time I'm squatting, probably over the weekend.

Mrthingy, you may be right that I need to go a long way backwards, but that's fine - I've never squatted particularly heavily anyway and want to get it right!

What does "TFL" stand for, incidentally?
Click to expand...

Hehehehehe... don't thank me yet. You have no idea how much fixing this stuff is going to hurt. ;)

Do as icecold says as the mobility thread has a HUGE amount of skillz in it for both diagnosis and self-remediation.

As googling TFL throws up Transport For London I will let you off. ;) In this context, tt stands for tensor fascae late.
 
mrthingyx said:
Hehehehehe... don't thank me yet. You have no idea how much fixing this stuff is going to hurt. ;)

Do as icecold says as the mobility thread has a HUGE amount of skillz in it for both diagnosis and self-remediation.

As googling TFL throws up Transport For London I will let you off. ;) In this context, tt stands for tensor fascae late.
Click to expand...

Haha, I was wondering - I know that Transport for London occasionally lacks flexibility, but I didn't think that's what you meant!

I'll have a look at the mobility thread as well.
 
Sounds like ankle mobility to me, I'm the same. Can't squat without weight without falling over backwards, center of mass doesn't go forwards much when my knees won't go near my toes!

I would recommend fixing it, I've never really tried and it hampers me massively. I'm a phaggot.
 
Chris1712 said:
Sounds like ankle mobility to me, I'm the same. Can't squat without weight without falling over backwards, center of mass doesn't go forwards much when my knees won't go near my toes!

I would recommend fixing it, I've never really tried and it hampers me massively. I'm a phaggot.
Click to expand...

Interesting - I'll get a video up when I can.

How do you distinguish between whether the issue is ankle mobility or something else?
 
There may be other things at play but there's never any harm in doing some proper core work. Here are my favourites:

Standard gym or no equipment needed:
  • Dead bugs - dead simple but quite humbling if you can't do them properly
  • Reverse crunches
  • Pallof press (with band or cable stack)
  • Cable chops/lifts in half-kneeling position
  • Stir the pot
  • Front planks
  • Side planks
  • Barbell landmines

With planks, once you've gotten up to doing sets of 1 minute, there's little point in going higher than that, so you can make them harder in various ways:
* Wear a weighted vest/get someone to put a plate on your back
* Do plank variations such as: plank arm marches, elbow touches, prone plate switches, hand switches

Requires some equipment you won't always find in most gyms:
  • Ab-wheel roll-outs - if you don't have an ab wheel you can also do these with a stability ball
  • TRX fall-outs - also works with any other type of suspension trainer
  • Alligator walks - put valslides/furniture sliders under your feet and then walk on your hands for distance, maintaining perfect plank posture throughout
 
TFL = Tensor fasciae latae muscle

Absolute agony with a lacrosse/hockey ball right in it. Feels good.

This is the issue of my tight hips and flexibility issues so I know how that feels. The TFL and the IT Band are a bitch.
 
For me at least, TFL is not nearly as tight as psoas. It's pretty much impossible to do SMR on that bad boy though, so get your physio to get in there. It will make you sick from the pain but it will do a lot of good :D
 
Since doing a lot of mobility work, the pain has subsided, and flexibility improved, but it's still an area that needs a lot of work. :(
 
When you "get into" muscles with a hockey ball, what do you do? Literally dig in and rub, or something else? I read the mobility thread and saw a lot about tacking, but didn't quite understand what was meant by it from the description. Do you hold the ball still and pull the muscle across it with your other hand?
 
Trap and roll the muscle between your body and the ball... I.e. put the roller or ball on the floor and lie/sit on it.

And prepare to scream.
 
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