Help - advice and suggestions on system specs please!

Fatfish

Fatfish

Fatfish

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Joined
9 Aug 2006
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104
Ok folks - make yourselves a cup of tea and get comfy, it's going to be another one of my long posts!

I want to upgrade my current 754 AMD system to something a little more up to date. Having used only the OcUK site, I've come up with the following specs. What I'm looking for is the best value for money (obviously) - or to put it another way, the most performance for the least money! :D

I'm intending to buy a Dell 2007WFP and want to enjoy my gaming in the native res of 1680*1050 or there abouts - hence the necessity to upgrade my current system. The system will be primarily used for gaming and t'internet. I'm not a hardcore gamer, but I am an avid gamer - although it's unlikely I could spot minor differences in framerate if asked to compare. I would also like the system to be capable of handling the current release of games and (to a degree) anything in the next 12 to 18 months. Hopefully that should give you an idea of my requirements and expectations.

I'm leaning more toward the 939 socket setup mainly because of the cost saving, but also because of the mixed reports I've heard from some people on the current AM2 socket architecture. I've opted for the AMD Athlon 64 4000+ (939) in both specs, as it's within my price bracket and the website states it's good value for money, reaching FX57 performance levels - but please say if you think there is better for a smiliar price bracket (+/- £25).

The mobo's I've chosen both have either Xfire or SLi configurations as I may opt to use this in the future (although these setups only include a single card for now). However, this is not set in stone, and if you feel I would get better performance/value for money from a standard 939 or AM2 socket mobo that has a single PCI-E Express graphics card socket, then please say so - or even better, point me to an alternative!

And the same goes for any of the other components I've listed - if you think I can get better value for money by replacing any of them (or if they're stupidly over specced and you think lower would suffice), please let me know. I won't be intending to overclock this new system unless the components are sold overclocked - just don't know enough about it.

So, the specs are as follows:

System 1

Mobo:
Asus A8R32-MVP Deluxe Crossfire (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-131-AS)
£117.44

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego (Socket 939) - OEM (CP-175-AM)
£82.19

or can anyone recommend a better processor for a similar (+/- £25) price bracket? Perhaps the AMD Athlon 64 4000+ (Socket 939) - Retail (CP-120-AM) for £105.69?

Graphics card:
Connect3D ATI Radeon X1800 XT 256MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-044-CO)
£149.17

or

HIS ATI Radeon X1900 GT ICEQ 3 SILENT Heatpipe 256MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-057-HT) - is the silent heat pipe worth the trade off in performance and cost?!
£158.57

RAM:
G.Skill 2GB DDR HZ PC4000 (2x1GB) CAS3 Dual Channel Kit (F1-4000USU2-2GBHZ) (MY-008-GS) CAS Latency: 3-4-4-8 (PC4000)
£152.95

or

Corsair 2GB DDR XMS3500LL TwinX (2x1GB) CAS2 (MY-107-CS) CAS Latency: 2-3-2-6-1T
£187.94

or

Mushkin 2GB DDR XP4000 Extreme Performance Dual Channel Kit (2x1GB) CAS3 (991483) (MY-000-MK) CAS Latency: 3-4-3-8
£140.94

or would anyone suggest reducing the cost and opting for something a bit cheaper and slower instead?

PSU:

Thermaltake PurePower Power Station 520W Modular ATX2.0 PSU (W0073) (CA-025-TT) (modular system with power surge boxes and dual 6-pin PCI-E Express connectors)
£88.07

or

Enermax Liberty 500W ELT500AWT ATX2.2 Modular SLI Compliant PSU (CA-025-EN) (modular system with dual 6-pin PCI-E Express connectors)
£70.44

Total= £560.18 - £624.81 inc VAT (dependant on choice of components).

or

System 2

Mobo:
Asus M2N32 WS Pro nForce 590 SLi (Socket AM2) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard (MB-159-AS)
£182.07

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego (Socket 939) - OEM (CP-175-AM)
£82.19

or can anyone recommend a better processor for a similar (+/- £25) price bracket? Perhaps the AMD Athlon 64 4000+ (Socket 939) - Retail (CP-120-AM) for £105.69?

Graphics card:
Gainward BLISS Geforce 7900 GT "Golden Sample" 256MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-040-GW)
£187.94

RAM:
Corsair 2GB DDR2 XMS2-6400C4 TwinX (2x1GB) (MY-108-CS)
£144.95

or

G.Skill 2GB DDR2 HZ PC2-6400 (2x1GB) CAS4 Dual Channel Kit (F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ) (MY-013-GS) 4-4-4-5-15
£182.07 (same price as the one below but with slower timings?)

or

G.Skill 2GB DDR2 ZX PC2-6400 (2x1GB) CAS4 Dual Channel Kit (F2-6400PHU2-2GBZX) (MY-011-GS) 4-4-4-4-12
£182.07 (same price as the one above but with faster timings)

or

Crucial 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 PC2-5300C3 667MHz Ballistix Dual Channel Kit (BL2KIT12864AA663) (MY-079-CR) Latency not specified
£146.82

or would anyone suggest reducing the cost and opting for something a bit cheaper and slower instead?

PSU:
Thermaltake PurePower Power Station 520W Modular ATX2.0 PSU (W0073) (CA-025-TT) (modular system with power surge boxes and dual 6-pin PCI-E Express connectors)
£88.07

or

Enermax Liberty 500W ELT500AWT ATX2.2 Modular SLI Compliant PSU (CA-025-EN) (modular system with dual 6-pin PCI-E Express connectors)
£70.44

Total= £667.59 - £722.34 inc VAT (dependant on choice of components).

Lastly, could someone recommend an efficient and reliable silent cooling block (reasonably priced) for use with this cpu please?

I appreciate this is a long post and there's a fair bit to take in, but even £500 is a considerable amount of money to me and I just want to make sure I get it right and I'm pleased with my purchase.

So over to you and thanks very much for your time and help. :)
 
Don't have a heart attack at what I am about to say, Fatfish, but easyrider is correct. :p If it's a moder, high-power CPU that you want then the new Conroe (Core 2 Duo) processors offer unbeatable bank for buck right now.

The only problem is that you seem heartset on that San Diego 4000+ at £88, and it is a bloody bargain. If you really want that processor then there's no reason not to buy it, the cheapest Conroe is £130 and if that's out of your budget for the CPU then there's not much that can be done. If you were interested in going Conroe though, it won't be difficult to cut a little cost elsewhere to raise that £40.

I also notice that you selected a Socket AM2 motherboard for the second rig, I am affraid that a Socket 939 processor will not work in this motherboard as Socket AM2 is 940 pin. :(

Off the top of my head and without looking at the shop pages (I will check properly for you tomorrow, I swear) I would suggest something like...

PSU: The Akasa ones are nice, I use one of the 460w Ultraquiet Paxpower 2 ones by them for my rig and it's always been rock-solid in terms of stability. Enermax, Tagan, and Seasonic are also praised around here, and I would say that you should aim for 500w (400w is enough, but you want a quality PSU that will last.)

Motherboard: Asus or DFI motherboard on Socket 939, doesn't really matter which unless you plan to overclock like crazy, or if you plan to go SLi/Crossfire.

CPU: The San Diego 4000+ you selected is nowhere near as good as a Conroe, but it is a cracking deal at the moment and there's no reason not to buy it. My X1800XT ran perfectly fine alongside a cheapo Socket 754 3400+ and quickly too, so unless you're into benchmarking or are a real performance freak then a 4000+ is fine.

RAM: If you're going 939 then any DDR400 will do the trick, as you probably know AM2 and Conroe require DDR2 (and most people suggest G.Skill DDR2-667 for them), but like I said DDR400 Value RAM will do for a Socket 939 system (DDR400 quality RAM if you are into benchmarking and extreme overclocking.)

Graphics: X1800XT and X1900GT are more or less equal in terms of performance with the X1800XT pulling ahead, but the X1900GT has the HIS IceQ 3 cooler for only £10 more which is a bloody stonking cooler.
 
Thanks for that guys. tbh, I hadn't even considered Intel. My last rig was AMD and it's a very stable (even when slightly overclocked over the standard overdrive settings) and has performed very well with all my games so far. But it's rapidly reaching it's limit.

What's the future like for the Conroe? Is Intel likely to continue with this pin configuration and architecture, or is it just the quick taster/precursor to the next thing (much like the 754-pin AMD)? Also, I've always found AMD to be the cheaper option when upgrading. Plus their performance is very comparable to higher Intel chips in terms of gaming - as an example, I've just this second benchmarked my rig on 3DMark05. Whilst it's struggled like hell and dropped as low as 2 fps fairly regularly (! :eek: !), it has managed a respectable score of 3230, putting it very close to (and beating in some cases), a P3.4/3.6 with the same Radeon 9800XT, despite being rated as a 2.2Ghz cpu.

However, I will say when it comes to multi-tasking different applications and media use, it's fairly average, if not poor. But I expected that when I went with AMD. It's the trade off for the cheaper price I guess. I must admit, I would like to see a decent improvement in this area.

Thanks for the tip easyrider - I'll look into it.

@ Ulf - I had wondered about the AM2 socket and the 3400+ cpu. I thought the mobo spec said it did support it, but I had the idea in my mind that the AM2 pins were different. So would this be a viable alternative then?

AMD Athlon 64 3800+ 2.4GHz (Socket AM2) - Retail (CP-165-AM)
£81.02 inc VAT

I would look to go for the recommended RAM specification for this type of cpu as well - which would be the cheaper Corsair pairing listed above.

If you're willing to look at it further tomorrow and give me some suggestions (including the Conroe option), that would be really appreciated. Thanks very much.
 
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Fatfish said:
Thanks for that guys. tbh, I hadn't even considered Intel. My last rig was AMD and it's a very stable (even when slightly overclocked over the standard overdrive settings) and has performed very well with all my games so far. But it's rapidly reaching it's limit.

What's the future like for the Conroe? Is Intel likely to continue with this pin configuration and architecture, or is it just the quick taster/precursor to the next thing (much like the 754-pin AMD)? Also, I've always found AMD to be the cheaper option when upgrading. Plus their performance is very comparable to higher Intel chips in terms of gaming - as an example, I've just this second benchmarked my rig on 3DMark05. Whilst it's struggled like hell and dropped as low as 2 fps fairly regularly (! :eek: !), it has managed a respectable score of 3230, putting it very close to (and beating in some cases), a P3.4/3.6 with the same Radeon 9800XT, despite being rated as a 2.2Ghz cpu.

However, I will say when it comes to multi-tasking different applications and media use, it's fairly average, if not poor. But I expected that when I went with AMD. It's the trade off for the cheaper price I guess. I must admit, I would like to see a decent improvement in this area.

Thanks for the tip easyrider - I'll look into it.

@ Ulf - if you're willing to look at it further tomorrow and give me some suggestions (including the Conroe option), that would be really appreciated. Thanks very much.
Click to expand...


I'll ignore the comments you made in the graphics forum towards me as I want people to get the best bang for buck.

Its easy.

Discard all notion of P4 etc..

Conroe is faster than anything right now.And I dont mean by a bit.I mean by a massive ammount.It really is that much of a performance change.

Conroe @ 2.6ghz is faster than FX 60 clocked at 2.8ghz.
The fx 60 has a top end limit of around 3.1ghz on air give and take.

My conroe is at 3.8ghz (the performance is staggering)
 
Thanks again for the info.

Without this turning in to a slanging match and with no offence meant, I found your remarks and comments aggressive and they weren't even aimed at me! Your argument didn't really hold water as Ulf and ACESHIGH had both posted links to user evidence and had never guaranteed you that the pipelines could be unlocked. They simply said it's possible on certain models, but not all. And yet you continued to barrage them as if they'd lied to you or were trying bs other people?!

I understood what they were saying from the first few posts - let alone when they re-itterated it later. I, like the majority of forum users, do not respond to trolling or non-reasoned argument. Shouting louder and attempting to belittle others views does not win an argument - it's done through reason, evidence and reading the other posts properly. So I'm sorry if I've offended you with my remark, but I didn't find merit in what you had to say.

However, offering advice as you are now, is redeeming and helpful. :)
 
Maybe some C2D benchies might help... here. Keep an eye on the £139.95 E6400 :D

& to save you the trouble, here's a spec:
  • Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 "LGA775 Allendale" 1.86GHz (1066FSB) - OEM (CP-135-IN) £109.95
  • Connect3D ATI Radeon X1800 XT 256MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-044-CO) £126.95
  • Asrock ConroeXFire-eSATA2 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard (MB-003-AK) £53.95
  • GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC5300 667MHz Value DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB5300DC) (MY-034-GL) £99.95
  • Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro CPU Cooler (Socket 775) (HS-017-AR) £19.95
  • Seasonic S12 430W Silent ATX2.0 Power Supply (CA-000-SS) £39.95
  • Subtotal £450.70
  • Shipping (City Link Parcel Next Day (Delivered Mon-Fri)) £8.95
  • VAT £80.44
  • Total £540.09
 
Thanks for the benchmarks hp. And also for the system spec - it does look very tempting at that price.

So is the current Conroe architecture likely to be around for a while? What I don't want to do is buy a mobo and cpu again only to find that the next time I want to upgrade the cpu or graphics card, I need to buy a new mobo aswell. As I've explained already, I've been caught in this trap with the AMD 754 Athlon 64 with AGP socket - hence the system change now. :(

Just on a slightly different topic for a moment. I've got legit copy of XP Home running on my system currently. If I change the cpu and mobo, will it still allow me to register/authenticate it if I re-install it on my current HDD in the new system? And as my HDD is only IDE, if I upgrade to S-ATA drive(s) at a later date, will it allow me to re-install and register/authenticate it without saying it's already been registered to my previous system?

edit: Ok, just read the bit-tech report on the Intel Duo Core all the way through, and I'm sold. I'll be opting for the Allendale E6400 to begin with and will upgrade to a fully fledged high level Conroe cpu in a year or so, once the prices have dropped a little. For the current perfromance and cost of the Allendale though, you can't go wrong. Thanks guys - good choice!
 
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Longevity is a luxury word in the PC world. I built my Socket 939 around this time last year & is now (almost) obsolete. The beauty of now is that the systems are still very capable & can keep up with what's new. So build something good now & it should last you awhile is what I’m trying to say.

XP copy is tied to mobo. Change that & you definitely need a new key/copy/etc. Other hardware is not affected.
 
I thought that might be the case with the mobo and XP. I wonder if it's possible to contact MS and arrange for it to be unlocked/swapped - it's unfair of MS to expect people to purchase their OS every time they upgrade. Well that's another £56 I've got to factor in then. :mad:
 
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