Help me design my extension! :D

[tamzzy]

Planning a wrap around extension for my home and need some ideas please
So, the original building is the square and it's going to be a 3-sided wrap around
The porch, study/bedroom, bathroom, utility room and kitchen will all be new
I'll be moving my home entrance door to the front + porch, and the original side entrance will become my new study/bedroom's entrance
There will be a side-gate to the front of the property
I'll only have one skylight in the kitchen as the roof will be pitched on all 3 sides, and therefore unable to put a second skylight in

Any comments/ideas/suggestions/critiques?

v5:
took everyone's comments on board
would like and fitted bifolds and a kitchen island (albeit small)
had to alter the doors between the utility and bathroom
dining area went back to where it was in v3
the only dilemma now is where to place the radiators in the kitchen - also with bifolds will need a significant amount of heat to warm up the room
i'm thinking a thick vertical rad down the side of the couch, but i highly doubt it will be enough (shown in the diagram)
or a thick type 22 behind the couch and pull the couch slightly forwards - unless anyone else has any ideas i suspect this would be the best and most aesthetically pleasing option (ie the couch hides the radiator)

kitchen sketch up:

Spoiler: v4:

Surprisingly, the dining area and the kitchen area are both nearly the same size at ~15sq m
I've taken the consensus advice to swap the kitchen and diner, and managed to find a layout that would optimise kitchen space with an L-shape/broken U-shape layout
The upper wall (in relation to the plan) uses 40cm depth cabinets rather than 60cm - this would give 1.5m distance between cabinet edges and should be a nicely usable space
Other thing I'm unsure about is whether to have two or three skylights - with only the two skylights, the rear elevation now looks like bugs bunny lol, making me swing in favour of having three skylights

Spoiler: kitchen design v1:

Spoiler: v4 with 2 rear skylights

Spoiler: v3:

Spoiler: v2:

Spoiler: old

 

[ik9000]

It sounds like you already have your plan. The lack of kitchen window surprised me. Also if the kitchen roof is hipped (I presume that's what you mean by sloping on three sides) why couldn't you mirror the skylight? Do you have an elevation to show how it slopes?

Is your aim to have a kitchen-diner? It seems a bit of a half-way to have them staggered as drawn. Could taking the kitchen extension further left allow you to create an island into the dining room? If you want to separate them then perhaps keeping some of the existing wall might give a better result and give you a natural place for a kitchen radiator as well as removing the 2nd radiator from the dining room and creating a more natural area for storage/welsh dresser or whatever at the right hand end of the dining room.

Personally I loathe jack-and-jill bathrooms, but each to their own.

I presume you're ok with the dryer not being externally vented (most these days aren't tbf)

Can you have the oven next to the fridge? Isn't that a bad idea? If it needs to move than perhaps it might be better placing the oven by the boiler, especially if needing gas option. It will also give more flex for a large range oven in future should you want to change out the wall oven and hob.

My wife would ask "where do I sit in the kitchen" again, to each their own.

Would it make more sense to center the window on the lounge, or are you wanting to avoid alterations to that part of the existing?

I think there's a thread in here somewhere that talks about L-shape sofas. They will be delighted to see one included I'm sure.

Presumably you will be applying for planning at some point? (Or is your house massive enough for this to fall under PD rules?)

 

[tamzzy]

Also if the kitchen roof is hipped (I presume that's what you mean by sloping on three sides) why couldn't you mirror the skylight? Do you have an elevation to show how it slopes?

yep, here it is:

Spoiler

Is your aim to have a kitchen-diner? It seems a bit of a half-way to have them staggered as drawn. Could taking the kitchen extension further left allow you to create an island into the dining room?

yes it is, unfortunately the neighbour is to the left (in relation to the diagram)
they've also just had their extension done and left the rear boundary line intact...i assume i wouldn't get a party-wall agreement to build into the fence (and i don't like an extension that stopped just short of a fence - personal preference, that's all lol)
would love an island though, just can't see how to fit it in

map of neighbouring properties (now i'm on the left, neighbour to the right)

Spoiler

If you want to separate them then perhaps keeping some of the existing wall might give a better result and give you a natural place for a kitchen radiator as well as removing the 2nd radiator from the dining room and creating a more natural area for storage/welsh dresser or whatever at the right hand end of the dining room.

actually not a bad idea, could just have a smaller opening joining the kitchen and dining area rather than a whole demolished wall
the thick vertical rad can then come right into the kitchen, and yeah as you say, can have a dresser where the radiator would've been

Can you have the oven next to the fridge? Isn't that a bad idea? If it needs to move than perhaps it might be better placing the oven by the boiler, especially if needing gas option. It will also give more flex for a large range oven in future should you want to change out the wall oven and hob.

yep good idea, noted

My wife would ask "where do I sit in the kitchen" again, to each their own.

that's a good point, could definitely put a small wine table and perching stool with the larger wall

I presume you're ok with the dryer not being externally vented (most these days aren't tbf)

yeah no issues with that, as you say most new ones don't have external venting (not bought yet)

Personally I loathe jack-and-jill bathrooms, but each to their own.

it's more for long-term, the study can become an en-suite and guests can still enter the toilet via the utility room

Would it make more sense to center the window on the lounge, or are you wanting to avoid alterations to that part of the existing?

correct, avoiding alterations - already pretty expensive lol
builder quoting circa £2000 per square meter not including the toilet/utility/kitchen

I think there's a thread in here somewhere that talks about L-shape sofas. They will be delighted to see one included I'm sure.

Presumably you will be applying for planning at some point? (Or is your house massive enough for this to fall under PD rules?)

planning will be needed
architect just sent the first set of drawings today asking for my thoughts

 

[ik9000]

Worry about planning first, then party wall. Your neighbour can't stop you building up to the boundary line if planning allows it. The whole point of the Party Wall Act is to give you the right to do things on your side of the boundary, including altering the party wall or garden walls/fences to facilitate that work. You will obviuosly need to check deeds regarding who is defined as responsible for maintaining the fence, but SFAIK you can, within the act, build a new brick wall up to or even staggering the boundary line, and then build onto it, (and usually with the compromise of a caveat provided you make provision in the design for the neigbour to do the same if they need to in future). Now sure you have to get their agreement, but it will be agreeing on the finer details, not a matter of consent/right to veto. IIRC the Act is intended to allow you to do so. If your neighbour doesn't want you building up to the boundary they need to raise this with the planners and get them to not allow it at that stage. Once you have planning it's too late to stop it. It's just a horse trade on details and working methodology, programme/sequence of works etc.

Obviously early dialogue with neighbours is usually a good idea, politeness goes a long way. Just be prepared that some people, even normal folk, can go weird if they perceive a threat to their castle. You don't have to be bullied by them, the act offers some protection in that regard.

Pulling the side wall in a bit can however give a nice space for guttering downpipes from above, and eaves guttering to the extension, without issues of potential overhang / rights of your neighbour to join on and use them in future. I wouldn't rule it out. You can get a nice bifold/convservatory door system and uncluttered rear appearance from the garden by hiding those in the recess. Remember to blind the area so weeds can't grow though as accessing them can be tricky. Make sure rodding access and mini drainage eye points (not manholes, those would go elsewhere) are positioned in sensible places someone can reach in future.

Have you discussed with your architect where the drainage inspection chambers/manholes would go and where downpipes and gulleys would need to be positioned? Have you checked via CCTV survey the arrangement of your current drains and whether they are private to you or shared with other properties (now classed as public sewers since 2015, and so needing water authority consent to alter them).

 

[tamzzy]

@ik9000 the neighbours maintain that fence, i've met the couple a couple of times and they seem pleasant enough...they were the ones who came to knock on my door first lol
i've only bought the property 2 months ago, so planning to do all the works first before moving in proper and i don't want to look like a massive douchebag even before i've moved in lol
i think i can live with a partial rear extension for now, and besides its a ~400 sqft extension so would already provide a massive boost in space

 

[tamzzy]

V2:

Spoiler

 

[ik9000]

yep, here it is:

Ah, so there is a kitchen window after all! Phew. If you want a 2nd skylight in the kitchen you could ask your architect if the hip can be made steeper so you have a bit of flat roof at higher level where it meets the existing house. This would give the unimpeded depth over the kitchen for the 2nd skylight. The position and pitch of the skylight over the utility would change slightly, but to my eye it looks like there is room enough for both to be possible.

 

[ik9000]

I wonder if you could create a separate toilet off the utilty via a sliding pocket door, and still make a full ensuite for the study bedroom with a small bit of rejigging of the door and window positions, etc.

E.g. Mirror the door and shower, add a partition where the window currently is with the 2nd toilet onto it. The paritition could returns where the sink is. Rotate the sink 90 degrees and use a slim-line model in the utility side (or just get them to use the utility sink) while in the bedroom bathroom putting the sink on the house wall between the shower and toilet and rotate the toilet 90 degrees.

Bathroom side window either gets narrow, or is part obstructed when the door is open, but still functions when the door is closed. Alternatively you could just use a skylight similar to the utility, or just say stuff it, it's mechanically ventilated and artificially lit like a lot of ensuites in new build terraces are.

 

[tamzzy]

Ah, so there is a kitchen window after all!

haha yes! the kitchen was an alteration to the original drawings and had double bifolds (i forgot to alter the floor plan to reflect my changes)

I wonder if you could create a separate toilet off the utilty via a sliding pocket door, and still make a full ensuite for the study bedroom with a small bit of rejigging of the door and window positions, etc.

i'll have to look into that, utility room appears quite cramped already. i'll ask this from the architect and see what he can conjure up

 

[tamzzy]

If you want a 2nd skylight in the kitchen you could ask your architect if the hip can be made steeper so you have a bit of flat roof at higher level where it meets the existing house. This would give the unimpeded depth over the kitchen for the 2nd skylight. The position and pitch of the skylight over the utility would change slightly, but to my eye it looks like there is room enough for both to be possible.

to be honest, since i've seen the drawings, i find that the solo kitchen skylight is out of place...
thinking about getting rid of it altogether (would also help with insulation lol)

 

[ik9000]

i'll have to look into that, utility room appears quite cramped already. i'll ask this from the architect and see what he can conjure up

In my head the utility stays as-is just the door into jack and jill becomes a sliding pocket door (into the partition), and all the changes take place in the bathroom area. You could even just swap the shower to the toilet and vice-versa and I think that might allow the 2nd toilet to go in with a bit of jiggery pokery. It's just my aversion to bathrooms having two doors. If it doesn't bother you then it could make a decent wet room for hosing down.

 

[tamzzy]

In my head the utility stays as-is just the door into jack and jill becomes a sliding pocket door (into the partition), and all the changes take place in the bathroom area. You could even just swap the shower to the toilet and vice-versa and I think that might allow the 2nd toilet to go in with a bit of jiggery pokery. It's just my aversion to bathrooms having two doors. If it doesn't bother you then it could make a decent wet room for hosing down.

yeah my plan is to have it as a wet room. i've emailed my architect and he says that he'll send the revised plans next week.
i eagerly await

 

[tamzzy]

right, v3 back from architect and i think this is it

any comments?

 

[JRJ]

Personally I'd ditch the sink from the utility and have a bit more worktop space in that area.

 

[JRJ]

Just thinking out loud and looking at the google maps image how nice it would be with big bifold doors instead of the kitchen windows, close the patio doors up in the dining room to make a window and flip the kitchen and dining rooms? change the internal utility door to open into the the new kitchen area, looking at the scale the kitchen currently is approx 3m x 6m which would be a huge dining room with table and sofa looking out on the garden.

A quick edit in paint, not ideal but you get the idea.

 

[tamzzy]

@JRJ oh damn you
need to have a good think about that now lol

 

[JRJ]

@JRJ oh damn you
need to have a good think about that now lol

Sorry

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Just thinking out loud and looking at the google maps image how nice it would be with big bifold doors instead of the kitchen windows, close the patio doors up in the dining room to make a window and flip the kitchen and dining rooms? change the internal utility door to open into the the new kitchen area, looking at the scale the kitchen currently is approx 3m x 6m which would be a huge dining room with table and sofa looking out on the garden.

A quick edit in paint, no ideal but you get the idea.

Yeah that's mega lol. I mean if you are opening the place up and still have a lovely lounge then this is the winner.

 

[JRJ]

Have another one, bigger lounge, longer hall and large open plan kitchen dinner with plenty of space for an island, steels would probably need to be considerably bigger though.

*Edit* Could even go french doors into the kitchen/diner, or scrap the J/Jill shower room and just put a separate closet toilet under the stairs with the kitchen doors opening into the kitchen.

 

[tamzzy]

Have another one, bigger lounge, longer hall and large open plan kitchen dinner with plenty of space for an island, steels would probably need to be considerably bigger though.

the original design was similar (exc the larger lounge)
but with knocking down so many walls and needing larger/stronger RSJs i think the prices will quickly spiral out of control