Help needed for sound setup

[Katsumoto]

Hello. Need some help as the title suggests for some sound equipment upgrading.

Current system is a (now broken hence time to upgrade) Sennheiser HD 598 headphones and they are just hooked up to the PC normally. I have no fancy DAC/AMPs currently. Motherboard is the Asus Rampage IV extreme LGA 2011.

For some background on the usage, I do a lot of gaming. Currently playing The Witcher 3, Starcraft II Legacy of the Void, Rebel Galaxy and Planetside 2 (still I know). Alongside that I listen to a large amount of music, primarily through but not limited to Spotify Premium.

My music tastes are quite heavy, featuring a lot of metal both recent (The Agonist, Amorphis, Nightwish and Be'lakor for more recent stuff and obviously the goes without saying class of Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden and Metallica). There's also country music, basically the type that appears on the Rebel Galaxy soundtrack. I listen to this less than metal however. I dabble slightly into rap but only slightly and mainly just Eminem and have a large catalog of classic rock albums from the greats such as Guns 'n' Roses, Queen and Led Zeppelin.

Final point, i'm looking for good, accurate sound quality because i'm potentially looking into some music production eventually. Well, more accurately my housemate is and while i'm a work she can use my equipment. Oh and I do watch movies/series on this thing too.

Now you know my usage, is the following setup any good for it? I have a total budget around £600-£700 I think.

Sennheiser HD 700 (heard these are great for the rock genres and have a big soundstage which is good for gaming too I believe).

Asus Xonar Essence STU USB DAC and Headphone Amplifier (concerned over people saying it doesn't support virtual surround? apparently that isn't good for gaming).

Antlion GDL-0420 Audio ModMic V4

Also a big question. What is the deal with 'surround sound' headphones and the stuff I hear about that Asus Xonar not having surround/dolby support. I don't understand why this is a big deal but i've read it means games won't be as good on them.... but surely stereo sound with a headphone that has a good soundstage like the HD700's or my old HD598's doesn't need it? I also read that the virtual surround stuff is gimmicky to make gamers buy useless ****.
Any suggestions/help would be much appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Ryanr1987]

If you want accurate then the HD700 is not even close to being it. I find natural a difficult thing to find. If we are talking about live venue type sound, the HD600 was the closest I found to being natural in timbre. It's faults are that it lacks bass extension and it's a little unrefined.

The most musical headphone I've heard is the Nighthawk. It's bass extends all the way down, has a bump in the mid bass making things like vocals sound thick, fun and so smooth and seductive. It's treble extends to the end without any peaks. It's faults are also its strength, it's bass presence. If you EQ it's bass, I'm sure you can use them for professional work as they are a technically good headphone. They are a unique headphone because you can take you mind away and drift into a trance.

The HD650 is also fantastic. It's smoother than the HD600, has better separation, more extension in the bass and is better technically in all areas minus some treble extension.

No headphone is completely natural, they all lack in areas and pick up in others so it's trying to find that balance. I think the Nighthawk is a masterpiece but it is so polarising because of it's lush sound. Id vote Nighthawk with the Dragonfly Dac/Amp for a total £630 for a basic, good sounding simple setup.

HD650/HD600 with Little Dot MKII with Mullard M8161 tubes. This paring is amazing and a total price of £370. Dac wise, Schiit Modi 2 for an extra £100 or so brings you to £470.

If you wanted an amazing amp the Project Ember II godlike. That amp is so powerful, so tweak-able it is made for life.

 

[Katsumoto]

First, sorry for the late reply. I have the worst shift patterns.

Anyway, thank you very much fora prompt reply. I do however still have a couple of questions which i'm really struggling to resolve through a basic level of research into the subject. Bearing in mind i'm the main user but not the music technology savvy guy.

.First up is the whole deal with 5.1/7.1 headphones. I'm find multiple things on this topic ranging from avoid them at all costs, they suck because it's just multiple really bad speakers in the headphones to stuff about at least virtual surround being necessary for gaming/movies on headphones. Can you enlighten me on this topic? As the primary use is still gaming, just with someone who can appreciate good sound quality and who enjoys movies too, do I need headphones with 5.1/7.1 actual or virtual capabilities? If so, which? And finally on this topic, does the DAC/AMP need to support virtual surround too for it to work? If so which DAC/AMP can you recommend.

.Second question is regarding tube amps. I previously was unfamiliar with them. Can you explain how they differ from ordinary ones and why I might find it preferable for my usage?

.Finally, those Nighthawks do appear nice. The last thing to ask regarding them is simply because I do still use things like Skype/Teamspeak, just less than I used to, can they be modified with things like the Modmic 4.0 (never used these before but they seem highly regarded) to make it so I have quality headphones without the drawbacks of headsets but without losing the ability to use a mic. I lack desk space to have a proper mic.

Thank you in advance and you've been quite helpful already.

 

[rids57]

As your main use is gaming I think you would be better off getting an Asus STX / STX II sound card. This would give you virtual surround sound via stereo headphones, mic input a very good DAC and the capability of driving more difficult loads such as the AKG 7 series of headphones.

If you have to have an external then the Creative Sound Blaster X7 will do everything the STX II can do and more but does cost a bit.

As you intend doing some music production further down the line, I would stay away from tube amplifiers as they will colour the sound and you will be wanting it as natural as possible.

With the budget you have I would be looking at Asus STX II and a pair of AKG K712 headphones.

 

[Katsumoto]

Unfortunately yes it has to be external. Beefy GPU's are beefy.

I'll look into the X7, looks interesting. I presume it supports the 7.1 surround sound stuff? Another question for me, sorry i'm not the best read on this subject, but how does the surround sound work on stereo headphones?

Edited: Another question, how does the onboard audio of my motherboard (Asus Rampage IV extreme) compare to these external solutions? Is the built in DAC good enough for what i'm looking for, as i'm lead to believe it supports up to 7.1 surround etc. If so, is an option for the levels i'm looking for to simply have JUST a headphone amp + headphones instead of headphone amp/DAC + headphones?

 

[Ryanr1987]

Surround sound headphones just don't have the technology, pedigree. Many tiny drivers are inferior to a well made 40-50mm driver found in these high end headphones.

Tube amps tend to me more spacious, more natural, smoother. Solid state I find is more cold, lean, detailed but this isn't really a rule as you can find some warm solid states. Tube amps you can adjust the sound by trying different tubes. I really can't go back to solid state any more. Tube amps also are mainly for high impedance headphones like the HD650, HD800 etc.

You can buy tube hybrids like the Little Dot 1+ or Project ember which can also play well with lower impedance as well as high.

Yeah the Nighthawks are nice but I must say they are not for everyone. There's an adjustment period for them as they are a warm sounding headphone. They also come with two cables, the main cable sounds quite a bit cleaner. I really recommend them if you like you music to be relaxing, smooth.

Before you check them out, I really urge you to check the HD650 out. The more I try them with different systems the more they shock me. I really feel the HD650 competes with everything out there even the HE-1000 which is £2999 and sounds better than the current LCD-3F which is about £1500 and is hands down better than the current HE560 £700. The HD650 is one of the most chameleon like headphones I've come across it just scales.

The Nighthawk is a better headphone on basic systems but the HD650 takes over it.

If you do go for the HD650 just get that and the Project Ember amp and call it a day, seriously.

 

[rids57]

When switching to virtual surround sound, the card takes the multi-channel audio and uses it to create a binaural stream, which is a normal stereo stream with added positional audio cues. Easiest way to describe a binaural stream is it's what you get if you replace your ears with two microphones, each sound reaches them at very slightly different times and your brain then decodes this information naturally and can place these sounds in 3D space.

I have to agree with Ryan about the HD650, I'm using mine right now, they are a stunning headphone BUT I also use my bass port modded AKG K702s for gaming due to their much larger sound stage.

It's hard to gauge how good the DAC is on your motherboard, it's not mentioned on their website so I have nothing to compare. If you are happy with the sound quality then an external headphone amp will enable you to drive harder loads and get the most out of your headphones.

A very rough estimate:

Sound quality = 85% headphones + 10% Amp + 5% DAC

This is because there is little between most current DAC chips on the market today and most of the differences in sound are due to the circuits around them.

ps. Your budget would allow you to get a nice headphone amp, a pair of HD650s for music and a pair of AKG K702s for gaming and movies, which is the route I took