Help needed to understand car leasing!

Soldato
Joined
11 Feb 2004
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4,532
Location
Surrey, UK
The mrs has a VW UP!
We bought it (leased it) in 2011 and the agreed 3 year term is drawing to an end.

Car price: £9,394.00
Deposit: £2,350.00
36 monthly payments of £100.40
Mileage: 6,700 miles (you read that right - purely for school runs!)
The car is immaculate. Not a scratch on it.

So, I went in today to arrange a like-for-like swap.

They want a deposit of £2,300 and £132.00 a month. For the same car!

What the hell? We've not taken out one of these lease deals before but I wan't expecting that. He asked me what I did expect, I simply said not that and left. I'm referring to the jaw dropping deposit and the higher monthly repayment.

Is this right? Better break open the piggy bank and go back if it is! :o
 
lease with option to purchase or just a lease? as in the car your paying for is not yours nor has anything to do with you?

if the later then it looks spot on given potential price increase and maybe a change in spec?

edit, just a sugestion, in the future if your signing up to anything like this understand it a bit at the start and not now lol
 
There's an option to purchase. What I didn't realise, is that to continue leasing we've effectively got to start all over again in financial terms. There is no continuation. I guess what I'm trying to say is I was shocked by the high deposit. Thought it would be much lower.

Apparently we only have £400 equity in the car we have now in terms of part-ex.
 
You leased a car for the 3 years - you paid the depreciation and some admin costs and then you hand it back or sometimes have the option to buy it at market value.

If you want to lease another car then you start again - Initial payment (usually 6 x monthly), monthly payment and any other setup costs.

The deal you posted is pretty poor though. Cheaper options are available in the links below:

http://www.gateway2lease.com/volkswagen_up_leasing.php#.VWD5YIh4WK1
http://www.nationwidevehiclecontracts.co.uk/Volkswagen-UP-leasing.htm
 
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Apparently we only have £400 equity in the car we have now in terms of part-ex.

So it's not a lease then - there is no part ex if its a lease.

If there is an option to purchase the one you have now then why not do this? Seems like a good buy with only 6k on it.
 
Wow thanks SDK. Where does deposit factor in? From what I can see, those deals make VW's offer look really bad! In fact I could have saved a bundle 3 years ago.

What's the catch?
 
[TW]Fox;28078016 said:
So it's not a lease then - there is no part ex if its a lease.

If there is an option to purchase the one you have now then why not do this? Seems like a good buy with only 6k on it.

The original new vehicle order form from 2011 does start with this!
I/We hereby agree to purchase from you subject to the terms & conditions here of (Including those overleaf) the undermentioned vehicle, extras and accessories, hereinafter
called the ’goods’. This document contains the terms of contract. Sign it only if you wish to be legally bound by them. Nothing herein contained is intended to, nor will it affect,
a customer’s statuory rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 or the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977

In the same document VW describe themselves as the 'seller'.

Think I better go back and clarify a few things! :o
 
You need to establish if you have a lease or Personal Contract Purchase (PCP).

A lease is basically a long rental agreement. You never own the car, although most leasing companies will give you a figure to buy the car at the end of the lease. Don't assume this is competitive - sometimes it is, sometimes it's way off. I know someone who wanted to buy a car they had on lease and went and bought it auction about £2k cheaper than the lease company quoted to buy it.

Generally with a lease you won't have the V5 registration document, and the lease company will deal with the road tax. They used to just post the tax discs out shortly before the tax was due, not sure what they do now discs have gone.

If you have a PCP this gives you a greater range of options. From your description, it sounds more like you have a PCP. A PCP will give you a Guaranteed Minimum Future Value (GMFV) on the agreement, sometimes called a balloon payment. This is the amount of the finance that you don't have to make repayments against during the agreement, although you are charged interest on it.

Your options are pay the GMFV and own the car. From the figures above I would estimate your GMFV would be around £4300. Given you're going to have to find north of £2k for a deposit for a replacement, this doesn't look a bad idea. The rate of depreciation on a small car will tail off quite sharply after the first 3 years, so if you buy the car and run it for another 2 years this won't cost you much in depreciation at all - probably hundreds rather than thousands.

You could pay the GMFV and sell the car privately. You need to find out what it would be worth as a private sale to decide if this is worthwhile.

You can use the equity as a part exchange/deposit against a new car. Don't assume the dealer is going to do you any favours here. There are several places a dealer will try and profit from the situation:

The dealer knows what your GMFV is and that anything they offer you above this is a bonus for you, so they can lowball you on the part exchange value.

The dealer knows what you've been paying both deposit and payments, and they will try and creep these up a bit as most people expect prices to rise over time. This might mean you end up paying a higher rate of interest and the dealer gets more commission on the sale of the finance agreement. Often they make more on the finance than they do on the car.

Dealers love PCP's because they know in 3 years time most customers will be back with a problem around what to do and that gives them a great opportunity to sell another car and take a commission on a finance agreement.

Finally, you can hand the car back and walk away - although if the car is worth significantly more than the GMFV, this is a silly thing to do.

You are under no obligation to stick with the same dealer or manufacturer when changing cars on PCP, so shop around. If you like the Up, get down to a Seat and Skoda dealers and see what they'll do you on a Mii or a Citigo.

You got a pretty good deal on the PCP last time around - there may well have been a VM promotion on, but on deals like this the GMFV will be carefully calculated to bring it as high as possible without undue risk to the finance company in order to keep the monthly payments low. This will never give you much equity in the car, so it was always the case you were going to have to find a deposit of around the same again when you came to change. I bet the dealer didn't explain that to you though!
 
It sounds like a PCP. You have to consider the difference between higher payments and the GFV. If you had paid more on the current deal, you'd have a lower GFV and thus your trade in would be m higher. If you want low monthly payments as well as a decent GFV then you'll need a lower interest rate.

Ask them to reduce the GFV by at least a grand (they'll be happy to do this, not so happy to increase it!) and haggle hard on the interest rate. You'll need to accept that you'll pay a bit more per month to avoid being in the same scenario as you are now again.

I did my last car on PCP but rather than just looking at the payments I thought about the whole thing. I bought it from a Peugeot main dealer but they managed to get me a better deal using BMW finance when I pressed hard on the apr. Becuase of this and carefully looking at likely depreciation when agreeing the GFV, when I wanted to change 18 months into the 3 year deal, I walked away with almost exactly what I put in as a deposit.
 
@BLUEBOY and iaind - thanks for the wealth of information there guys. I'm heading back to VW next weekend to determine exactly which type of contract I entered into 3 years ago.
Feel a bit foolish now, should have asked more questions at the time. This is the first car we've bought from new.
Will post the outcome of any conversations next weekend so stay tuned - might well need some advice. :)
 
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