Help Please, annoying problem !

Mr Dave · 4 Oct 2006 at 09:44

Hi all,

First post here in motors, hoping you guys can help me out

I’ve been having problems with what I think is the brakes on my MK3 Fiesta Si. The problem is that whenever I brake from say above 50 mph I get violent juddering through the steering wheel and only the steering wheel. The car has recently had new front discs + pads and new shoes at the back and the problem only really started after the new parts were fitted.

I’ve taken it back to the garage that fitted them and they have checked the brakes out and said everything is fine. The mechanic said that one of the wishbones was a little worn and could be the cause, so I took the car to my local Kwik Fit (I know, I know : o ) and got both front wishbones replaced. I thought that would be the end of it but no, the juddering is still there :mad:

I did a quick Google on the symptoms I have been experiencing and it came up with possible warped discs? I’ve had the car up on a jack and when I spin the wheel round the pads do rub at a certain point on the disc, is this normal?

I’ve taken the car to another garage to get the brakes checked and again they said to me everything is ok.

Am at a bit of a loss here and would greatly appreciate any answers you lot could give me before I spend a small fortune paying some mechanic to tell me what it is.

Here is all the work done before the problem started

Front discs + Pads
Front left Shock
Front adjuster
Rear shoes + Wheel bearing

Sorry for long post

Thanks

Dave

Havana_UK · 4 Oct 2006 at 09:51

Does sound like it could be warped discs - di you let the pads and new discs bed in or did you get hard on the brakes straight away?

Hav

Phil W · 4 Oct 2006 at 09:51

Could well be warped discs, are they cheap and have you hammered them?

Tesla · 4 Oct 2006 at 09:55

Almost certainly warped discs, bet they didnt clean the hub and the discs are not sitting completely flat,

Mr Dave · 4 Oct 2006 at 09:56

They are cheap discs and no i haven't been too hard on them at all :rolleyes:

no seriously i went easy on them for a gd few weeks. The problem started as soon as they had been replaced and has been getting worse. Everything seams to point towards warped discs, are they easy to spot ? Any reason why the mechanics never spotted it ?

Thanks

Dave

Entai · 4 Oct 2006 at 09:59

So you definately can't feel any juddering through the brake pedal itself, because it really does sound like a warped disc.

They are fairly hard to spot by eye, you really need to set up a run out guage and measure the run out of the discs across their width to check properly and not many places do this, in fact it is unlikely that the average Kwik Fit mechanic would even know what one is.

The fact they bind a bit when you spin them, does also point towards them not running true, however this can also be a sign the wheel bearing is on it's way out, but usually that would be preceeded by an increase in noise rather than judder, if a wheel bearing is causing judder it often means it is very very worn, and I am sure you would have noticed something before now.

I have had new discs in the past, that were warped from the start, but it was hard work getting the garage to admit it, they did in the end, and replaced them free of charge, but only after I had taken in a run out guage and shown them.

Mr Dave · 4 Oct 2006 at 10:05

Entai said:
So you definitely can't feel any juddering through the brake pedal itself, because it really does sound like a warped disc.

Yup definitely feeling nothing through the pedals, and I have driven a car with front bearing on the way out and it feels nothing like that.

Is it worth the hassle trying to get the mechanic to change the discs? I’ve had them for a while now about 2 months and have already taken it back once. Plus how do i know he wont put another crap set on and do another bodge job :mad:

Can anybody recommend a decent set of Discs and pads ? EBC brake’s any good?

Thanks

Dave

Entai · 4 Oct 2006 at 10:11

Mr Dave said:
Yup definitely feeling nothing through the pedals, and I have driven a car with front bearing on the way out and it feels nothing like that.

Is it worth the hassle trying to get the mechanic to change the discs? I’ve had them for a while now about 2 months and have already taken it back once. Plus how do i know he wont put another crap set on and do another bodge job

Can anybody recommend a decent set of Discs and pads ? EBC brake’s any good?

Thanks

Dave

Could always do it yourself save the fitting charge and buy a better quality set of discs and pads with the savings, it is not a difficult job on a Fiesta.

EBC are good, as are any of the other big names, just don't go for cheap pattern parts on something like the braking system as it is so safety related.

Mr Dave · 4 Oct 2006 at 10:28

Entai said:
Could always do it yourself save the fitting charge and buy a better quality set of discs and pads with the savings, it is not a difficult job on a Fiesta.

EBC are good, as are any of the other big names, just don't go for cheap pattern parts on something like the braking system as it is so safety related.

Thanks for the help guys

Been meaning to give changing discs + pads a go myself. Do i need any special equipment to change the discs and pads? Will I need axel stands and a trolley jack? Is it worth buying a Haynes manual?

Thanks

Dave

ste_bla · 4 Oct 2006 at 10:40

WAIT...

I had a similar problem.. I had juddering through the steering wheel at above 45mph and no where else.. it turned out one of the wheels had lost a balancing weight (2 or 5grams i think) and so at higher speeds it juddered the steering wheel

Steve JL · 4 Oct 2006 at 10:47

The other thing to check as well is that its not the rear drums that are warped.

Easy check just get to the speed when the problem occurs and rather than pressing the brake pedal GENTLY ease the handbrake on keeping your finger on the button.If it starts juddering then you know the problem is at the rear rather than the front.

I have seen this many times before,vibrations can travel through the car quite easily and have even been caught out myself with warped rear discs/drums.

As you have said you had the rear shoes replaced it is quite possible the mechcanic has belted the drum with a hammer to get it off,not an issue in itself but if he has hit it on the friction part of the drum it could well be out of true.

Steve

Tesla · 4 Oct 2006 at 10:48

How do rear drums warp? How do you test for them?

I havn't ever seen warped drums.

Phil W · 4 Oct 2006 at 10:58

Tesla said:
How do rear drums warp? How do you test for them?

I havn't ever seen warped drums.

Getting too hot, then hitting the brakes hard iirc.

I thought my Corsa had warped brakes. I changed the discs and pads, rear drums, shoes even a cylinder, turned out to be a buckled wheel.

Steve JL · 4 Oct 2006 at 11:11

Its quite difficult to warp rear drums but yes it is usually through massively overheating them or as I said above through actually hitting the outside of the drum where the friction material would contact.

I also described above how to check for warped rear drums as well by using the handbrake.

Although that would not work on early Subarus or some Citroens as the handbrake works on the front wheels

Steve

Mr Dave · 4 Oct 2006 at 12:01

ste_bla said:
WAIT...

I had a similar problem.. I had juddering through the steering wheel at above 45mph and no where else.. it turned out one of the wheels had lost a balancing weight (2 or 5grams i think) and so at higher speeds it juddered the steering wheel

I've had all the wheels balanced after the new parts were fitted as i thought the exact same thing but still no joy.

Steve JL said:
The other thing to check as well is that its not the rear drums that are warped.

Easy check just get to the speed when the problem occurs and rather than pressing the brake pedal GENTLY ease the handbrake on keeping your finger on the button.If it starts juddering then you know the problem is at the rear rather than the front.

I have seen this many times before,vibrations can travel through the car quite easily and have even been caught out myself with warped rear discs/drums.

As you have said you had the rear shoes replaced it is quite possible the mechcanic has belted the drum with a hammer to get it off,not an issue in itself but if he has hit it on the friction part of the drum it could well be out of true.

Steve

Thanks steve i'l give this ago before i go buying any new parts.

Dave

Mr Dave · 5 Oct 2006 at 15:14

Bit of an update for anybody interested.

Turns out you guys were right

I had a go at changing the discs and pad’s myself (with a lot of help from a mechanic friend) and the front left disc was clearly warped and was causing the problem. My friend told me to look for the tell tale signs such as a blue colouration from where the heat had warped the disc. Also the obvious banana shape of the disc was a huge indication lol.

Changed the discs and pads with some lockheed parts and hey presto no more judder

Thanks for all the help, uv saved me a bunch!

Cheers

Dave

Stonedofmoo · 5 Oct 2006 at 15:29

nice one