Help using hotshoe flash

413x · 4 Apr 2015 at 10:00

So had my flash come today
Never used one before and not sure if something in a setting is amiss

Main thing is the flash doesn't seem to be pre firing

Is in ettl mode but the settings in terms of aperture for example do not at any point seem to take the flash of the unit into consideration

The AF assist grid works

I may be being daft but I expected a pre flash on focusing and metering

Vertigo · 4 Apr 2015 at 10:09

Firstly, you won't see the pre-flash as it happens a split second before the exposure is taken. You might be thinking of the red-eye reduction flashing you sometimes get from compact cameras?

Secondly, what mode are you in? On Canons, the Av and Tv modes will expose for ambient light, whereas P will expose for the flash as the primary light source.

Hunders · 4 Apr 2015 at 10:39

Put your camera in manual mode at 1/200th of a second and say.... f/8 and take a shot. All good?

413x · 4 Apr 2015 at 11:16

Vertigo1 said:
Firstly, you won't see the pre-flash as it happens a split second before the exposure is taken. You might be thinking of the red-eye reduction flashing you sometimes get from compact cameras?

Secondly, what mode are you in? On Canons, the Av and Tv modes will expose for ambient light, whereas P will expose for the flash as the primary light source.

Ah was thinking I'd see a double flash. Makes sense.

Yes I have read about there are differences in different modes. Need to get my head round it
So P mode (never used it) in a dark room with a person in flash range will result in a dark background?
Tv and Av use flash in different way?

Phal · 4 Apr 2015 at 12:04

al4x said:
Ah was thinking I'd see a double flash. Makes sense.

Yes I have read about there are differences in different modes. Need to get my head round it
So P mode (never used it) in a dark room with a person in flash range will result in a dark background?
Tv and Av use flash in different way?

In my limited experience with my flash, I just put it in manual and pick a reasonable ISO and it seems to do the trick lol

Vertigo · 4 Apr 2015 at 13:31

al4x said:
Ah was thinking I'd see a double flash. Makes sense.

It is possible to see the pre-flash if you have a very slow shutter speed (or use bulb mode and hold it open) and use second-curtain flash, or use FEL (flash exposure lock) where it'll fire the pre-flash to lock the flash exposure before you take the shot.

Yes I have read about there are differences in different modes. Need to get my head round it
So P mode (never used it) in a dark room with a person in flash range will result in a dark background?
Tv and Av use flash in different way?

Yep. In a dark enviroment, P assumes the flash is the primary source of light so exposes for that and the background will disappear into darkness.

Av & Tv do the opposite, exposing for ambient light then dialing in some fill flash. This works well when theres a decent amount of ambient light but, in a darker enviroment, you end up with a very slow shutter speed. This is when you need to resort to manual and fiddle with shutter speed, aperture and flash exposure compensation (FEC) to balance to taste.

D.P. · 5 Apr 2015 at 02:29

I'm in flash expert but I will leave the camera in aperture priority because I still want to control aperture, which has the single biggest affect on the images. I will bump up the ISO until it balances exposure, an easy way to do this is to use auto-ISO, potentially with a slightly lower limit. The. I just fore away trying to balance the flags exposure, Nd that all depends on if I am bouncing and what surface if I am. Standard white paint and I will dial back -1 on the flash, dull black or high ceilings and maybe +1.

I've never had an issue user automatic exposure. Issues normally come down to user error or people don't understand what the camera is trying to exposure for. Everything camera explodes differently and the different modes are also very diverse. Experience will teach you what your camera is doing, it then get very easy to guide it where you want it to go. Full manual is very difficult because it is hard to accurately estimate absolute lighting conditions, the human visual and cognitive system is designed to normalize exposure.

D.P. · 5 Apr 2015 at 02:36

Vertigo1 said:
It is possible to see the pre-flash if you have a very slow shutter speed (or use bulb mode and hold it open) and use second-curtain flash, or use FEL (flash exposure lock) where it'll fire the pre-flash to lock the flash exposure before you take the shot.

Yep. In a dark enviroment, P assumes the flash is the primary source of light so exposes for that and the background will disappear into darkness.

Av & Tv do the opposite, exposing for ambient light then dialing in some fill flash. This works well when theres a decent amount of ambient light but, in a darker enviroment, you end up with a very slow shutter speed. This is when you need to resort to manual and fiddle with shutter speed, aperture and flash exposure compensation (FEC) to balance to taste.

In very dark environments you just bump the ISO and open up as much as possible to get the the exposure. The slow shutter speed is not a problem with a flags, just switch to rear curtain and the subject will be sharp and super imposed.

Manual mode doesn't change he the physics of the situation. If it is dark enough to need a long exposure then that will be the same in manual mode. The only thing you are really doing is making a direct exposure reduction, which achievable in the exact same way using exposure compensation. The advantage of the latter approach is that is will adapt naturally to variances in light. If one part of a room need 1-2 stop more or less exposure than another part that leaving the camera in A or S mode and using EC to co natron background-foreground balance will ensure these difference are completely trams parang to you so you can concentrate on capture good subjects with strong compositions.

But I really see minimal value in full manual mode. It is almost entirely worthless to me. The camera can sense better exposure than any human, you just have to understand what the camera tries to exposue for which is deterministic.

Vertigo · 5 Apr 2015 at 08:48

D.P. said:
In very dark environments you just bump the ISO and open up as much as possible to get the the exposure. The slow shutter speed is not a problem with a flags, just switch to rear curtain and the subject will be sharp and super imposed.

Very simplistic and only applies if you want a very specific type of shot.

Manual mode doesn't change he the physics of the situation. If it is dark enough to need a long exposure then that will be the same in manual mode. The only thing you are really doing is making a direct exposure reduction, which achievable in the exact same way using exposure compensation. The advantage of the latter approach is that is will adapt naturally to variances in light. If one part of a room need 1-2 stop more or less exposure than another part that leaving the camera in A or S mode and using EC to co natron background-foreground balance will ensure these difference are completely trams parang to you so you can concentrate on capture good subjects with strong compositions.

One way of doing it and might work in some situations.

But I really see minimal value in full manual mode. It is almost entirely worthless to me. The camera can sense better exposure than any human, you just have to understand what the camera tries to exposue for which is deterministic.

There are countless situations in which full manual is either easier or just plain necessary. Also, claiming that the camera can "sense better exposure than any human" immediately after expounding the virtues of exposure compensation (i.e. overriding the camera's exposure) is comical

413x · 6 Apr 2015 at 02:42

Thanks guys, reading up on this.

One thing. The zoom on the flash doesn't seem to be working
I have tried all modes and the camera can control every other settings except zoom
Also I can't even adjust it on gun

It appeared at the correct focal length only one use.

Is zoom meant to match lens focal length or not?

Phal · 6 Apr 2015 at 08:41

al4x said:
Thanks guys, reading up on this.

One thing. The zoom on the flash doesn't seem to be working
I have tried all modes and the camera can control every other settings except zoom
Also I can't even adjust it on gun

It appeared at the correct focal length only one use.

Is zoom meant to match lens focal length or not?

Are you talking about the zoom number shown on the flash LCD? Mine changes through a few different focal lengths as I zoom the lens.

413x · 6 Apr 2015 at 09:52

Phal said:
Are you talking about the zoom number shown on the flash LCD? Mine changes through a few different focal lengths as I zoom the lens.

Yes mine wasnt.

Figured it out. The inbuilt diffuser is tied to it. When you get it out the zoom goes to 14mm fixed (makes sense, max width) but I hadn't quite put it back in all the way.

Didn't have a clue the diffuser affected this!

Phal · 6 Apr 2015 at 10:56

al4x said:
Yes mine wasnt.

Figured it out. The inbuilt diffuser is tied to it. When you get it out the zoom goes to 14mm fixed (makes sense, max width) but I hadn't quite put it back in all the way.

Didn't have a clue the diffuser affected this!

Yeah I remember Raymond mentioning this. The pullout diffuser assumes you're at the widest focal length but I can't say I've used it much.

413x · 6 Apr 2015 at 13:13

I just thought it was purely mechanical and didn't affect anything on the settings
Took me longer to figure out than I want to admit

Phal · 6 Apr 2015 at 13:47

al4x said:
I just thought it was purely mechanical and didn't affect anything on the settings
Took me longer to figure out than I want to admit

Can't remember if I even noticed before Raymond said something about it or not. I don't remember it being a big aha! moment but I also don't remember noticing it for myself lol.

Either way, I can't say I've used it. I would only use it if I was very close and had no walls or ceilings to bounce off and if I didn't have my little pop out diffuser with me.

413x · 6 Apr 2015 at 21:58

Yeah from little I've used it bouncing is much much better effect.
So much you can do with a flash

Better to get a cable or control unit for initial hand held off cam stuff?

(ie. Cable or yn-e3-rt)

Phal · 6 Apr 2015 at 22:07

Well I bought the YN E3 RT but as people have pointed out since, the price difference between that and another flash is pretty minimal so you can have one flash on camera controlling another off camera if you want.

Cable would be fine if you got yourself some kind of mount frame to use it for macro but I'm not sure what else a cable would be good for.

413x · 6 Apr 2015 at 23:08

It's more the weight.
What I'll most likely be doing is holding the camera in one hand and flash in other (have heard this does make a difference?)

But yep ray just said get another flash

Phal · 7 Apr 2015 at 07:30

I've done a little of that when photographing people but I'm not sure I'd want to do that for macro since the tolerances in movement are somewhat less.

Some kind of metal bracket that just holds the flash out at a distance would be good but I haven't yet mustered the effort to google

Phal · 9 Apr 2015 at 09:44

Something like this! http://www.koolertron.com/koolertro...non-camera-nikon-r1c1-flashgun-new-p-436.html