Help with understanding msaa

Altikriti · 12 Dec 2015 at 12:22

Hey all,

Just looking for some clarification..

Am running bf4 on 200x scaling at 1980x1080 with everything on ultra and 4XMSAA. My frame rates are 70-65. Should i be turning the MSAA off along with something else? I have noticed if I turn the MSAA off while still scaling at 200X the image isnt as clear slightly blurry. When I do turn it off I get 120-95fps. I have done some research but am just wanting conformation for my understanding.

Also how much more demanding can we expect games to get in the next 2 to 3 years?

Specs:

Intel i7 4790K @ 4.9GHZ 1.32V
Kingstone FuryX 16GB @ 2100MHZ
Kingstone FuryX SSD 500GB
Kingstone FuryX 120GB
3 X HDD SATA 6GB/s total of 1.7TB
Asus ROG 980 GTX TI Matrix Platinum 6GB
Asus ROG Maximus VI Extreme
SoundBlaster Z
Corsair H110i GTX
Corsair RM850 PSU
Windows 10 professional
Corsair 780T Case

FloppyPoppy · 12 Dec 2015 at 13:33

Turn the scaling off! It's awful!

MSAA is basically edge smoothing it makes objects look smoother. It's up to you if you want it on most people do. Those who want to play competitively have everything on low anyway. Your system will be fine for years.

They may get more demanding but tuned drivers and better Apis help solve this anyway.

Altikriti · 12 Dec 2015 at 13:43

harry5522 said:
Turn the scaling off! It's awful!

MSAA is basically edge smoothing it makes objects look smoother. It's up to you if you want it on most people do. Those who want to play competitively have everything on low anyway. Your system will be fine for years.

They may get more demanding but tuned drivers and better Apis help solve this anyway.

Thanks mate..

I thought the scaling made everything look very very sharp. Isnt it there for that purpose?

FloppyPoppy · 12 Dec 2015 at 13:50

Altikriti said:
Thanks mate..

I thought the scaling made everything look very very sharp. Isnt it there for that purpose?

It's basically fake resolution for people with low res screens. You would be better of performance wise using nvidias DSR for the same effect. But really you should be leaving your content at the same resolution as your monitor its not as compacted and strange looking. I believe bf4 scaling also has a few latency issues with it making it minutely less responsive.

EDIT : Nice rig btw, what monitor are you using?

Altikriti · 12 Dec 2015 at 14:12

Ah, ok.

Thanks mate...

I currently have AOC i2757 27" IPS but am thinking of buying a ASUS PG279Q ROG Swift 27" IPS 165Hz Gaming Monitor. What do you reckon?

FloppyPoppy · 12 Dec 2015 at 14:20

Altikriti said:
Ah, ok.

Thanks mate...

I currently have AOC i2757 27" IPS but am thinking of buying a ASUS PG279Q ROG Swift 27" IPS 165Hz Gaming Monitor. What do you reckon?

Gorgeous monitor I use the older version of it and it still blows me away every time I see it. The new one only improves on this so you really can't go wrong.

Especially with your setup you want a monitor that can do it justice

Altikriti · 12 Dec 2015 at 14:32

Sweet.

Would I see a difference if am already coming from a basic IPS?

FloppyPoppy · 12 Dec 2015 at 15:10

Yes a huge difference due to g-sync and the refresh rate. The input latency is pretty great on the 279Q compared to most normal IPS screens.

The better resolution will be nice too! You will see how much of a difference it makes compared to scaling in games.

Altikriti · 12 Dec 2015 at 15:35

harry5522 said:
Yes a huge difference due to g-sync and the refresh rate. The input latency is pretty great on the 279Q compared to most normal IPS screens.

The better resolution will be nice too! You will see how much of a difference it makes compared to scaling in games.

I've bought it mate. delivery is set for tuesday. so basically when i get it, set the game on the 1440p resolution turn scaling down to 100% and turn msaa off? Is that the best way to get the sharpest image?

BluD · 12 Dec 2015 at 15:36

harry5522 said:
Turn the scaling off! It's awful!

Scaling quality must depend on the game as it looks great in GTA and SOM, maybe its because im at 1440p though, when i use 2x scaling i dont need any msaa as it applies its own edge smoothing. Its very demanding though, with 2x scaling and 4xmsaa i only get 20-30 fps so i wouldnt recommend using msaa with scaling.

BluD · 12 Dec 2015 at 15:38

Altikriti said:
I've bought it mate. delivery is set for tuesday. so basically when i get it, set the game on the 1440p resolution turn scaling down to 100% and turn msaa off? Is that the best way to get the sharpest image?

I would use MSAA, it only blurs the rough edges, FXAA is the one that makes everything looks a bit blurry.

FloppyPoppy · 12 Dec 2015 at 15:38

Altikriti said:
I've bought it mate. delivery is set for tuesday. so basically when i get it, set the game on the 1440p resolution turn scaling down to 100% and turn msaa off? Is that the best way to get the sharpest image?

Resolution at 1440p, Scaling at 100% and msaa turned on a little bit. Really not needed maxed out though

somewhere in the middle

.

BluD · 12 Dec 2015 at 15:44

4x should do it

Altikriti · 12 Dec 2015 at 15:51

Sweeeeeet

. To be honest MSAA on with everything else to the full doesnt effect me I've tried bringing the Graphics card to it's knees and i simply cant lol.

Might download crysis 3 and see how it does with that.

Seanspeed · 12 Dec 2015 at 17:32

Resolution scaling = downsampling/supersampling = very effective, but very costly anti-aliasing, essentially. Comes with a bit of a boost to sharpness of textures and whatnot as well, but it's fairly minor. If you've ever seen something called SSAA, it's the same thing. 200% resolution scaling = 4xSSAA. 150% = 2xSSAA.

So using a lot of MSAA, which is already fairly costly, *on top* of SSAA, can often be total overkill unless you're trying to take pretty screenshots.

As for any blurring, some forms of downsampling can produce a softening effect. This is usually done because supersampling tends to increase sharpness of the image, so it's usually desirable to balance it out a bit. But it can depend on the game. With Nvidia's DSR you can adjust how much it softens the image. I usually keep it around 15-20%.

Also, somebody above said that competitive players turn settings down to Low - this is only in regards to detail level and shadows and whatnot. Basically anything that removes 'busy-ness' from the image so people can see enemies quicker and easier. Plus of course many people want the best framerates. But anti-aliasing is still desired. In fact, it's better because it cleans up an image and makes things, especially in the distance, more clearly defined.

If you're at 1440p, I'd suggest turning resolution scale all the way down to 100%(so it's normal 2560x1440) and using 4xMSAA. 2xMSAA is probably sufficient, but you've clearly got enough power to run 4xMSAA. MSAA should not create blurring.

Altikriti · 12 Dec 2015 at 17:45

Seanspeed said:
Resolution scaling = downsampling/supersampling = very effective, but very costly anti-aliasing, essentially. Comes with a bit of a boost to sharpness of textures and whatnot as well, but it's fairly minor. If you've ever seen something called SSAA, it's the same thing. 200% resolution scaling = 4xSSAA. 150% = 2xSSAA.

So using a lot of MSAA, which is already fairly costly, *on top* of SSAA, can often be total overkill unless you're trying to take pretty screenshots.

As for any blurring, some forms of downsampling can produce a softening effect. This is usually done because supersampling tends to increase sharpness of the image, so it's usually desirable to balance it out a bit. But it can depend on the game. With Nvidia's DSR you can adjust how much it softens the image. I usually keep it around 15-20%.

Also, somebody above said that competitive players turn settings down to Low - this is only in regards to detail level and shadows and whatnot. Basically anything that removes 'busy-ness' from the image so people can see enemies quicker and easier. Plus of course many people want the best framerates. But anti-aliasing is still desired. In fact, it's better because it cleans up an image and makes things, especially in the distance, more clearly defined.

If you're at 1440p, I'd suggest turning resolution scale all the way down to 100%(so it's normal 2560x1440) and using 4xMSAA. 2xMSAA is probably sufficient, but you've clearly got enough power to run 4xMSAA. MSAA should not create blurring.

Thanks for that!

Cant wait for the monitor to come now to see the change in quality. Will be very interesting to see the FPS at 1440p with 4xmsaa on this card.

uksoldierboy · 12 Dec 2015 at 18:01

Was getting between 60-90 fps depending on map/action/server when using my 980.

Ultra settings, x4msaa

Altikriti · 13 Dec 2015 at 18:07

Jesus, fury x in crossfire!?

I wonder what The ROG 980 GTX TI Matrix Platinum SLI would be like up against the fury x in crossfire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or2ei5ceCMI

Thats a review for them in SLI

setter · 13 Dec 2015 at 20:57

Whilst I haven't benched it, bf4 on a single 980ti runs very nicely at 2560x1440 on max settings. Recently moved to the original swift here too.

Altikriti · 16 Dec 2015 at 20:38