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Here's why the 8800GTX is getting a poor 3dmark....(relative to GX2)

ernysmuntz

ernysmuntz

ernysmuntz

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I think a lot of people don't realise that SLI isn't implemented that well for all games...
This could well be why the 8800GTX only gets 1000 or so more points in 3dmark06...
Yet in oblivion your doubling your frame rate....

Bold for emphasis....

3dmark is obviously going to be optimised to the max for SLI cards....I mean they design it that way...

Most games prolly aren't...

If you compare the score for just single cards, you'll see that the G80 is the biggest leap in performance since the original Geforce...

(more than the ATI 9700)
 
um what are you talking about????????

2x 8800GTX in SLI gets just over 2x the performance of a single 7950GX2 in 3D Marks 06...

and if you bench a 8800GTX single card against a 7950GX2 then the 8800GTX wins by a shade - but if you look at the hardware specs side by side the 8800GTX is only slightly faster in the areas that matter, tho it has significantly greater vertex and shader capabilities (which might be why it runs oblivion so well) these don't really come into play in 3D Marks 03 through to 06, tho a new 3D Marks might utilise those capabilities and show the 8800GTX perform much better...

Also the 8800 drivers aren't as mature yet, they will prolly gain a little more with better drivers.

EDIT: Also the 7950GX2 seems to me - to be better than a 7900 SLI or xfire rig for multi card based performance gains across the board, I'm yet to actually find a game or benchmark that doesn't show a signifcant advantage with this card - even games where SLI/xfire doesn't usually make much odds.
 
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I've seen quite a few...

"The 8800GTX doesn't beat the GX2 by much in 3dmark05\06"

Was just addressing those posts, I don't think its got anything to do with shader performance, and more down to specific hardcore optimisations for SLI. After all, its a benchmark for graphics cards pretty much, so its going to be optimised to the max to show what an SLI card can do at its best.

When I say SLI - I'm talking about the GX2 - I'm not talking about 2 cards AT ALL.

When it comes to games, they have better things to do than optimise stuff for SLI, or at least they certainly aren't going to be going to the legnths futuremark would as it would cost them too much money.

THAT is why the 8800GTX only beats the GX2 by a whisker, yet kicks its ass in virtually all other games :)

So I'm saying that the only fair comparison for the 8800GTX is to compare it with a single card, single core solution, as comparing to the GX2 is just toally misleading, as like i've said the performance varies so much with the GX2 - as for it to work to its full potential games must be optimised for it, and they aren't all to the same degree.

So when some person comes along touting benchmark results for one game where the GX2 might be close (assuming there is one), there will be another one where it is nowhere near.

So all the people saying the 8800GTX is only a bit faster than a GX2 aren't really right at all, its far supieror and damn good value for money RELATIVE to a GX2, and nobody made a fuss when that came out did they?
 
its nothing to do with SLI opptimistations or lack thereof...

3D Marks 06 simply does not utilising in benchmarks areas of the 8800 series card that are significantly faster than older cards...

And there are few games that make use of these areas...

A lot of people have been benchmarking the lost coast video stress test with an 8800GTX and getting lower speeds than my 7950GX2... the lost coast video stress test doesn't even work that well with SLI/xfire.

Some simple figures...

Texture fill rate:

24000 MTexels/sec v 18400 MTexels/sec << when it comes down to pure textured ploygons the 7950GX2 is gonna serious beat the 8800GTX

Vertex ops:

2000 MVertices/sec v 18400 MVertices/sec

unfortunatly for the 8800GTX there are no games out at the moment that even require anything close to 2000 let alone 18400 and its gonna be a long time til there is... probably the 8800 won't even be on sale by then...

Shaders ops:

24000 Operations/sec v 73600 Operations/sec

This is where we will start to see some advantages in games... some newer games like oblivion make heavy heavy use of shaders, however 3D Marks 06 as I stated doesn't make heavy enough use for the extra shader performance to make any odds... (unless you have some serious CPU power) whatever version of 3D Marks comes out next might do... and then we would see the 8800 doing much better in that specific area...
 
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Your also not taking the blistering CPU bottleneck you'll get from running at 1280x1024 on 3DMark06 into consideration.
 
i got a 2.5k difference between my gx2 and my 8800gtx in 3d06 but playing halflife 2 with everything maxed i can see a huge difference between the two cards.
 
That is true... an E6600 is borderline for the 7950GX2 - an 8800GTX at 1280x is gonna need quite a lot faster CPU before it starts to show any significant performance gains in benchmarks over older cards, and even then as I pointed out above - its only really going to be in the shader area in 3D Marks 06 that you'd see significant performance gains with enough CPU horse power.
 
I've read that at 1600x1200 and below, even a Kentsfield may bottleneck a single 8800GTX let alone two in SLI.
 
ca9phoenix said:
i got a 2.5k difference between my gx2 and my 8800gtx in 3d06 but playing halflife 2 with everything maxed i can see a huge difference between the two cards.
Click to expand...

what CPU are you using?
 
3DMark CPU limited? :o

I get pretty much the same results in 3DMark06 with my CPU (discounting the slightly higher CPU score) at 3.6Ghz and 4.3Ghz (Conroe E6700ES)
 
Hey looks like i was talking pants then....again... :o

I got a question though, what you say my Athlon 4000+ clocked at 3.18Ghz is equivalent to in terms of clock speed on a Core2Duo?

I know its not dual core obviously, but forget that bit for a moment?

Just curious of my expected frame rates for a 8800GTX I just bought, and no benchmarks seem to show anything remotely useful for me in so far as which cpu's their testing.

Thanks :)
 
ernysmuntz said:
Hey looks like i was talking pants then....again... :o

I got a question though, what you say my Athlon 4000+ clocked at 3.18Ghz is equivalent to in terms of clock speed on a Core2Duo?

I know its not dual core obviously, but forget that bit for a moment?

Just curious of my expected frame rates for a 8800GTX I just bought, and no benchmarks seem to show anything remotely useful for me in so far as which cpu's their testing.

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

Your CPU is providing a massive bottleneck to the performance of you gfx card, would get similar performance from a X1900 or a 7900 assuming you running at about 1280x1024 res or less (ignoring IQ improvements and the related AA/AF funkyness).
 
Oh bugger, well I've ordered the damn thing now, really wanted a new card not really happy with the 7800GTX in games like FEAR\Oblivion, in fact oblivion plays so badly I only got it out the box once and haven't played since (Got it on the 360 though :))

Still...guess I'll find out for sure, will let you all know how it plays relative to my 7800GTX as there aren't really many benchmarks for A64s on the net.

Thanks for the relplies....I'm beginning to think i might be a bit rusty at all this :o
 
oweneades said:
FX series to the 6 series anyone?!
Click to expand...

I mean the best card available at time, when the FX series was out wasn't the 9800pro around at the same time pretty much, the 6 series wasn't that much faster than a 9800Pro...ok it was a lot faster, but the gap between a X1950XTX and the 8800GTX seems a lot wider....

could be wrong, I didn't notice a massive improvement from my 9800Pro to my 6800GT clocked to ultra speeds in a lot of games?

Its shader performance still wasn't that good?

just my opinion, would be good to see a massive 3d card shootout like toms hardware guide did a couple of years ago where they benched about 30 cards from different generations. :)
 
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