Hi all, visiting from a different forum to try and find some answers about AMD's pricing on Vega

[digitalwanderer]

I don't know how it works in England but in the USA the manufacturer can not legally tell the retailer what to charge for their products...that's why it's a "manufacturers SUGGESTED retail price". Once the product is bought from AMD, the retailer can jack up the price to any level they want. AMD is legally barred from telling them not to or what to charge, and AMD doesn't see any of that extra profit...so why all the hate for AMD for the Vega's price mark ups? I just don't get it.

I was hoping someone here could explain it to me since the original story seemed to come from here. I mean no offense and I'm not looking for any fights, I'm just honestly curious and would really like to understand this better if anyone has an idea/opinion they'd care to share with me.

Thank you in advance, and a hello delivered with a warm grin. Please call me Dig, Digi, or whatever else you like...I know my nick is too long. It's a hold over from the 90s and I'm stuck with it.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Thank you Hotwired. Uhm, as for the HardOCP thing yeah I guess I'm a forum member there...but me and Kyle haven't always gotten along since about 99? I met him at the original Phenom launch for the first time after spending the better part of a decade fighting/arguing/debating/goading/having fun with him online and when we met in person we actually got along pretty well! I mean, he was all about Intel and nVidia and I was an ATi and AMD guy so of course we'd but heads on technical forums...but when you actually meet you realize you've got a whole lot more in common that with most folks just because you're both in to the hardware. We had a great and very sociable and friendly argument about our fights over the years, but we both smiled and shook hands at the end and I we greet each other and get along well when we meet at events. He's banned me from his forums more times than I can remember, ESPECIALLY during the FX scandal! ROFL But he let me back in and changed my official title to "I CONTRIBUTE NOTHING!!!!" which I sort of liked because it's just sort of how we are, but I do respect him in my own way as much as I plan to keep disagreeing with him in the future. (Oh, I've been out of the tech scene for about 2-3 years due to some family stuff and I'm just getting back in to it. Sorry, it's late and I've been up for too many days and my daughter just went back to school after 3 years of hell and I'm somewhere between occasionally weeping with joy and freaking out that I will FINALLY have a bit of time to pursue my own life soon!)

I was originally a mod at Rage Underground, but all us mods got sick of the owner and we quit en mass and started our own little site called Elite ********. I LOVED the place, it was the best little tech site no one knew about and we had the advantage of having some of the top people from the best sites as members because it was a great place to talk where no one would notice. I also helped start Driver Heaven during that time, but as much as I loved the folks there me and management didn't quite work out so I just went back to admining at Elite ********. The site had been stagnate for a couple of 3 years, I will take the blame on that one because my real life got busy but EB was my hobby and my family is my life. I'm a stay at home dad for about 20 years now, which is also why I got so heavily involved with forums because I was stuck in my house with 2 babies for about 5 years and the only social life I had was on the web.

I have no complaints, i made some of the best friends of my life online and I still haven't met 1/1000 of 'em. Doesn't really matter if I do or don't since we're in touch either way, but it is a trip to meet someone you've know for years but not have any clue who they are until you ask them if they're who there forum name was, and then the real fun starts!

Currently I'm a lame facebook person since I'm old, but I'm still very active on Beyond3D just because I keep learning so much there. They put up with my ignorance in exchange for my wit, or else they're just humoring me.

Oh, I also spent a great deal of time over at Rage3D and nVnews before Mike got ****** at me and permabanned me. I think I'm still banned at Anandatech too, not sure.

So I hope that clears things up about me. Currently I'm not with any company/site but I'm looking in to starting something new now that I've got time. I got back in just in time for the Ryzen launch and the return of AMD to be competitive in the CPU market is something I've been waiting for 13 to happen, so I'm a little pumped about everything right now. It's gonna be an exciting time for gaming over the next 6 months to a year!

The thing with the card price is bugging me though, because I asked some AMD people about it and they explained to me they were literally barred by law to set what the retailers charge for their cards. I know they did the pack thing to try and get some in to gamer's hands before the miners sucked 'em all up, which I think is at least trying but doomed to fail. The pack deal just isn't that good IMHO, the monitor you can save $200 on is $200 less at most places that don't carry the bundle and the games are only a deal if you planned on buying them anyways. I tend to think games included with viddy cards should be like a bonus freebie to show off the card on a highly optimized game for it, but I suck with business and monies so what do I know?

Sorry if you thought I was here to cause drama, that really ain't my intent. I'm just trying to understand the discrepencies between what you're saying and what I'm hearing from AMD, is that fair? I do believe I opened with "i'm not looking for a fight" because I tend to do that when I'm genuinely coming to a forum for information and not drama.

If you want drama I can provide, but man please let me get a decent nights sleep first! One of my dogs got skunked on Sunday and it took me until Tuesday to recover/fix the dog and house and then the next two days were spent getting my daughter back in to high school for the first time in 3 years...which went REALLY well and I'm still a bit slap happy with relief over. (YOU try being stuck in a house for 3 years with a suicidally depressed teen spending every day trying to get her help. We finally ended up doing a genetic screening, turns out she's missing the gene that produces serotonin which is the brain's "happy juice" and all she needed was a heavy duty folic acid supplement. Within 2 months she was back to her old twinkly eyed self, and today was her triumphant return to the world of academia!)

So no, i'm really not here to cause trouble...just to understand. I really don't get the story here and I just want to very badly so i thought I'd ask for help. If I'm causing trouble please just post up and I will stop posting as I don't mean to be a disruption.

Oh, and I take no offense at the general jumping to conclusions it was the start of some forum war dramas. I've had my fair share of them and yeah this did sort of look like one, that's why I thought I'd post this second one trying to be as open and honest as possible with y'all.

I will make a few disclaimers. I am a huge AMD fan and have been since they bought ATi. ATi I wasn't just a fan of, I genuinely loved that company. Fought 'em in the mid 90s with a few other forums since they were so bloody unhelpful with the community, and got to watch and be a part of them change their corporate attitude around to start embracing the community. Now a lot of my ATi friends work at AMD and after 20+ year or so a few (most, it's weird!), of them are in upper management of AMD so I have weird information contacts there that a lot don't. They also have an annoying habit lately of hiring all my friends over the last few years, so there's that too. I also have friends who work for Intel and nVidia, but nVidia hates my guts ever since the FX fiasco and Intel just never felt the pressure from AMD to have to make many friends. (Although my buddy who works there says it's a great place to work, same with my nVidia friends. <sigh>)

See? It's not about which brand is better or who has the bigger e-peni, it's about enjoying the geek to the gaming. I've found that to be a pretty good point of reference for most tech minded games to meet on.

So are you guys saying that AMD is ************ me? I AM NOT ASKING THAT AS A LOADED QUESTION!! I'd really like honest opinons on that too so hopefully it'll make me understand this thing a whole lot better.

Sorry for the imposition for information, but isn't that what it's all about?

Again, if you think I'm just here causing trouble just ask me to leave and I will trouble you no more. I don't like wasting my time in places I'm not wanted and it just seems rude to over stay one's welcome.

I throw myself upon the mercy of your judgement. Please either try and help me understand or just tell me to sodoff, I won't take it personally either way because I've been where you're at and it ain't always an easy call.

EDITED BITS: Oh, I was at that AMD thingy at SiGGRAPH too and got all the lectures/dives/info and the info from vidoecardz isn't wrong. Nothing was mentioned of a launch price and then a later price hike, just the package deals and the MSRPs that were reported.

EDITED BITS II: Ok, if you had the ear of the guy at AMD who said this wasn't real what would you ask or say to him? I'm pretty sure i can get answers to those questions fairly quickly, I just want to make sure to communicate them clearly and I can't if I don't understand.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Oh, and is "SEP" the same thing as "MSRP"?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Wow, thank you for all the input! I posted that last night just before bed and it's been a while since I've been on a forum this active.

Sorry to say I haven't READ any yet, but I'm getting to that as soon as I get my wife all fed and make her lunch for work. Priorities.

Oh, and I do believe there is going to be more news regarding this in a bit....I heard a rumor someone is working on a statement to put out to help clarify the situation. (Ok, when I say "rumor" I mean I did but I can't say I did. Figured you all don't know me yet so you might not catch my subtleties.

Sincere thanks for the discussion, I'm really looking forward to getting my morning stuff done so I can sit down and read it all. Just wanted to let you know I wasn't a hit and run poster when I saw how many replies there were and that I will be back with more questions and such, I'm just gonna be busy for a bit.

Thank you all again, just being able to crash in on a forum again and to have it feel like a natural home is a wonderful feeling I really missed. I sincerely appreciate the kindness.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Oh, here's some stupid pictures of me from SIGGRAPH so you'll know what I look like and that I was there.



The weird thing in the commons area I was wondering about all day, turns out it was for the capsaicin event just to take the perspective picture like that. I spoke with the guy who made it and he was really cool, his son was the one taking pictures. I spent most of my time there just walking around introducing myself to anyone wearing a placard and would end up having a great conversation. It was my first SIGGRAPH and it was like uber-geek heaven! I mainly into the gaming side so learning about all the other applications was just freaking amazing, and the people I would meet would end up being some major players in the design/animation industry but i'd have no clue since they were so down to earth and willing to explain/teach me things. Surreal experience in a wonderful way!



And due to them not being sure who I was or why I was there and the event was sold out, they gave me a VIP pass which let me go up to the VIP lounge where I actually bumped in to Tim Sweeney. He was very nice as I apologized for spilling his drink and I had no clue who he was until one of my friends pointed him out in a picture later. The bar up there was like something out of a bloody movie! I was drinking coke straight up on the rocks, and I was afraid to try any of the food since I couldn't tell what it was. Sorry for the potato quality picture, I GOT to get a real camera!




And just because they make me smile every time I get one, my badge. It confused the hell out of people because most had either what site they were with after there name or what their job was at AMD, mine just said my name. ROFL



An older one, but I was very excited about it. It was just a bit after Dr. Su took the reigns as CEO!



So sorry I won't be able to catch up on the thread yet, but I'm real and I promise I'll be back even if it's just to face all the derision I've probably earned.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Hi Digi, Just a quick point. Please have a quick read of the forum rules as I would not want you to get caught out. Other than that, have fun

Was it the ******** out bit? My old site used to be called elite ******** and I we used to have all sorts of problems with swear filters because of it.

Then again, it's part of why we named it.

If I'm breaking a different rule please let me know as I don't mean to/want to, but I confess I haven't read the rules yet but I shall do so before I post again. My apologies for any offense, none was meant...I've just really been in a bit of a silly/slap-happy mood to have my daughter back in school and doing well.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Colour me embarrassed!

 

[digitalwanderer]

Hey, hi, hello, and howdy. Sorry for not getting back sooner, but if I haven't mentioned I'm a stay at home dad and my life just isn't my own at times and I have almost no control over it. Sorry, just a "family is more important than anything" priority I made early on in case I ever got confused. It's worked for 22 years so I think I'll stick with it. I also never game online, if you're on Steam and see "digitalwanderer" I would recommend you be ready for a bit of an encounter. My son took over my Steam account when he was like 4-5 and never looked back. (I taught him how to use a mouse and keyboard to move when he was about 18 months old, he's gotten pretty good...)

I did do a lot of asking around and then a lot of research and then I also was forced to do some serious fu...some soul searching. Actually that didn't take long at all, it just comes down to do I want to be a fanboy and try and sell this or am I gonna be me and just say what I feel?

It didn't take long, like I said. If you ain't honest on the boards you'll never last on the boards, I learned that early on and I hate trying to sugar coat or sell something I don't believe in. Plus I quit lying unless necessary a long time a go, makes life SO much easier and more pleasant. You don't have to keep your stories straight, you can just freewheel and not worry.

Okay. I know I started this and I got gotta answer up to it too. People keep asking me to ask everyone I know about it and I have been and I've been getting a lot of answers and some are right some are wrong some are good and some are bad, but after analyzing it all and a lot of soul searching I think I can say and answer with heartfelt conviction;

a very bad four letter f-word.

NOTES: Sorry for the around the word filter thing at the end, but that's the only way I can honestly answer the question. I do not mean to offend, and I apologize if I have done so and please to edit/delete/ban me at your discretion. Also I lifted the last two lines in a post I just made over at Beyond3D about this same subject that got it's own thread broken from their general Vega thread. I only link the thread because I got a lot of information from there and felt it worth mentioning that I was lazy and did a copy/pasta/ninja edit because, but also because I really feel like it sums up my feelings.

I don't like this, it doesn't seem right somehow. I can't say I fully understand it since personal stuff had got my thinker unit a bit jammed, but every ounce of my instincts is telling me there is just a lot of what they are saying that doesn't seem to pass the sniff test. That honestly makes me feel sad/bad because I do genuinely love AMD a bit since I know so many good people there who are friends and I know to be decent and righteous, but something is off and I don't like it.

Again, sorry for just jumping in and saying that but I didn't want you to think I'd forgotten or wasn't following. I think I can get a bit more to tell, but I'm honestly so bummed just reading what everyone else has already discovered that I just want to not think about it for a while.

Thank you all again for your input, I do believe y'all are on to something.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Old news, AMD have already clarified the situation on price and said RX Vega will stay at the same price.

Fourever? With nou price increase ever?

Nout a hint, just woundered if their statement had any qualifiers or wiggle rououm.

NOTES: Sourry, thought the extry "u"s would add a bit ouf light heartedness tou a very dark moument four me. I really always have labelled myself as "Colour Commentator" though, we were an international site and I felt it better reflected it.

 

[digitalwanderer]

If it's any consolation, I think the true reason that there hasn't been any straight answers from AMD yet is that they're trying to figure out how to handle the situation and there are some debates going on internally. I don't think they know yet what the answer is going to be going forward, I do know there are people working damned hard to make sure the original prices stick though.

So I wait, and I don't think it's unrealistic to give them some time to figure it out...at least until the next shipment of cards are ready. It's all conjecture, but I still have some hope that AMD will do the right thing.

I know, that's just my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own and I don't really have anything to back up my opinion with other than my natural optimism and my faith in AMD from years of association.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Bit of an update from Jayz

Ugh! Saw that yesterday and it annoyed the hell out of me! He's not wrong, it's just weird seeing all these people from the Vega event making videos...I had no clue who was who!

And I think they're all missing the big thing, AMD isn't answering because AMD doesn't know yet...but two interesting points I realized after some thought because it's just been niggling at my brain ever since. The question that's been bugging me is why.

Why do the big Vega splash presentation if they knew they wouldn't be able to deliver in quantity or at the prices they said? They HAD to have known going in what the situation in a few weeks would be and they're not stupid, so why?

What if it was never about Vega64 or Vega56? What if it's just all about their professional line-up? The vega64/56 are probably based on lesser binned pro chips and the over abundance of memory bandwidth seems to be geared towards the whole ssd/memory cache thingy for the top-end pro cards and probably doesn't 'scale down' so well. (Sorry, I know "scale down" is the wrong term but I can't think of a right one) They just had to throw a bone to gamers to show they're 'trying' to get cards in to gamers hands, thus the Vega pimpfest and bungled bundle.

Also, I think they're going to try and use the Vega Nano as a pacifier by cutting the memory down to 4GB and cutting a few other features so as to make it more attractive to mid-end gamers in price and at least help to keep their market share until they get a card designed for gaming ready. I couldn't figure out why they wouldn't let us too close to it, but mebbe they put it in at last second as an out should it all blow up in their faces and they needed something to save face so they gave themselves an opening.

That's it, that's all I got. My brain hurt thinking about this one and I'm incredibly depressed, but it's my honest take on what I think is going on based on what I know. I don't think AMD knows what to do yet but I think, (and still hate to say it), if they're not going to go to war with the miners then they should just jack the price of the cards through the roof and at least make some money off them since no gamers will be able to get one anyway. If the miners want them, we'll never see them.

I'm real sorry, I thought I'd be arguing and telling you all how wrong you were; but it turns out this story not only has some basis in fact but it's just the tip of a weird and ugly iceberg that I'm not at all gonna enjoy finding out about. I love AMD, but I can't give any company a pass for misleading consumers/reviewers like this.

One final thought. We're where were at now and nothing they can do can change or alter that fact, but they have a hella big decision to make about how they're going to handle this and I think it will say a LOT about how they'll be handling themselves in the future...and i hope they know everyone is watching and will judge them on how they handle it as much or more than the original situation.

Blargh, I don't know if I want to cry or throw up. This is just depressing as hell to me.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Geez its only a graphics card, lighten up.
Large corporation behaves like large corporation shocker. Other than a few AMD diehards having to finally admit AMD is not their friend, its hardly the end of the world.

Actually after catching the tail end of Trump's, well his whatever it was in Arizona I've been on a non-stop binge of watching news coverage and suddenly gained a lot of perspective on where and what I should be focusing on.