Hi Def HTPC - looking for suggestions ...

[Jed Shields]

Hi guys,

I'm taking the plunge and building myself an HTPC. I've already got a thread about upgrading my gaming PC, but this one is just for entertainment downstairs. I'll be looking to use it for the following:

Watching HD-DVD's, replacing my Toshiba EP-30

I'd like to add BluRay to the mix

Watching films, TV shows, clips etc that I'll rip to hardrives both locally and on my network.

Not interested in music playback as I've got a Cyrus HiFi plus my Sonos system. However, I'll be looking at connecting the sound digitally to my Cyrus DAC-X. Also, not too worried about 5.1 etc yet as I've not got surround sound with my hifi yet.

TV - I've got a V+ box, but would like to add TV to the HTPC to give me the ability to stream recordings to different rooms. Also, is it possible to connect the Virgin signal to the PC?

Needs to be as quiet as possible.

It will be connected to my Panasonic 42PZ70 1080p plasma tv.

I've settled on an Omaura TF11 Home Theatre PC Enclosure as I think it looks great, and that's half the battle when getting approval from the wife This also gives me the option to use full size boards.

Motherboard & CPU. I might use my Athlon 4400 X2 939 CPU and Abit An8 SLI motherboard. Will this be okay for HD playback? I'm looking for some alternatives as well, as I'll probably end up installing the Athlon and MB in my wifes ageing PC.

RAM - is 2Gb plenty?

Graphics - looking at the Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT Ultimate Silent 256MB. My main PC will be used for games, so this rig will just be used for viewing and surfing.

Optical drive - looking at the LG GGW-H20L Blu-Ray Rewriter & HD-DVD ROM

Sound - I'll be looking for a good digital output. Sound quality is important, so I don't mind investing in this rather than just using an onboard solution.

PSU. I'm currently using a Hyper 580 but it seems a little loud. Any really quiet alternatives?

Cooling - general advice needed on silent solutions.

As always, budget is fairly tight, so not looking for an all singing, all dancing solution ...

Cheers,

Jed.

Oh, Happy New Year!

 

[KWJay]

Hi Jed

I have just finished a very similar project to what you're looking at. A friend of mine wanted a new pc, but wanted it to be more than just a pc connected to a tv.

I spec'd up a pc for him and, after a few teething probs, have got it all up and running. The spec is as follows...

Case - Antec Fusion Black HTPC case with built in 430HE watt psu £113.96 inc vat. This case has Antec's normal great design and 2 variable speed 120mm fans that can be set to low/med/high and can be used in combination for intake and exhaust.

Mobo - I used the Abit Fatality F-I90HD Intel 775 MATX board £68.14 inc vat. I chose this because it had built in HDMI and VGA output and was the cheapest one i could find at the time of ordering. It has on-board ATI graphics (X1250 chipset which is based on the RX700) and both optical and analogue 7.1 sound.

CPU - Intel E2180 "LGA775 Conroe" 2Ghz £58.74 inc vat. This cpu is great. It's cheap, it's Core2 and it clocks like the clappers!

Memory - 2GB OCUK PC2-6400 C5 800Mhz dual channel kit £24.66inc vat . Cheap, chearful and great value.

Cooling - Zalman CNPS8700-LED cpu cooler £32.89 inc vat. Needed something lowish profile and with good, quiet cooling.

Hard Drive - WD Caviar SE16 750Gb £108.09 inc vat. All the space you should really need, if not overkill!

Optical Drive - LG GGW-H20L BR Rewriter & HD-DVD ROM £178.59 inc vat (This Week Only)

All this came to £585.06 inc vat excluding delivery.

Now, the only thing i would do if i was building this system for myself would be to replace the Abit mobo with the Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H mobo with nvidia 7100 graphics built in or, as you say, get the HD2600 as well. The onboard graphics on this mobo does have HDCP, but it was an incredible pain to get working. The software that came with the LG drive kept telling me the system wasn't HDCP compliant and wouldn't play HD-DVD's properly. I posted about this in Optical drive forum and Bigpops has kindly helped me sort the issues i had. Now it all plays perfectly but the graphics chip on the mobo doesn't really help out the cpu very much at all.

The Gigabyte mobo has on-board NV graphics that are a generation ahead of the ATI chipset but also has built in HDMI and HDCP. I believe the NV chipset would have actually been a better choice.

Now, when i didn't think the OB graphics were gonna play ball and before Bigpops gave me his advice i ordered an HD2600Pro with HDMI from a certain well know auction site. When it arrives i intend to install it and see how much work is offloaded to the card. If it helps the cpu then i would say get the extra graphics card and you'll be able to "do more stuff at once" since i expect a fair amount of the work in decoding HD content will be offlaoded to the GPU, but i'll let you know my findings when the card arrives.

One thing i will give the Abit board credit for tho is the OCing. Currently i have the E2180 priming both cores, full load small TFT's to really get the heat going, and its sitting pretty at 3GHZ with no voltage adjustment. Now the chips are good clockers, we know this already, but its pretty good going for a micro-atx board.

The Antec case also has a very cool blue LCD display that plugs into a USB header on the mobo and displays all sorts of info. When music is playing a graphic equaliser bounces up and down (i know u have your own stereo, but i still found this quite a nice touch), it displays news headlines which it updates every 3 hours, can display all system info such as temps, cpu/mem usage etc and also has a Windows Media Center compatible built in remote control sensor so i f you plan to use MCE the sensor is built in, no need for more stuff hanging out the front or back USB ports. Now its not as spacious as the Omaura case, neither does it have room for as many drives, but i think it looks sleek and the volume control and LCD display really make it for me.

The sound from the HDMI sounds just as good coming through my TV as my Toshiba HD-E1 does so i think the onboard sound will be fine.

Now the system is all put together, i have to fans turned to min on the case and on the cooler and it's silent. The cpu is running at about 25c idle on both cores, 52c load on both. I'm happy with that and i think this system will do him fine.

As far as connecting the Virgin box to the pc, i wouldn't know if thats possible, and to add TV to the system wouldn't be that expensive.

Obviously my spec could be trimmed to save cash, for instance you can save about £30 by going for the blu-ray/hd-dvd reader drive without the BR writing, save on the hdd by getting a smaller one (my mate does a LOT of downloading! lol!) or leave the Zalman cooler out and just use the Intel one.

I hope my experience has helped you here, any questions just drop me a line on here!

 

[BillytheImpaler]

Mobo - I used the Abit Fatality F-I90HD Intel 775 MATX board £68.14 inc vat. I chose this because it had built in HDMI and VGA output and was the cheapest one i could find at the time of ordering. It has on-board ATI graphics (X1250 chipset which is based on the RX700) and both optical and analogue 7.1 sound.

Give this mobo a wide berth. It's got a load of problems with its BIOS. Search the motherboards forum for more info.

I usually recommend AMD for HTPCs. They're cheaper and typically do just as well. I think better motherboards are available for AMD HTPCs as well.

Have a look at the Abit AN-M2HD. The on-board graphics do hardware decoding and will put off very little heat.

As usual in my HTPC specs I recommend an X2 3800+ "Energy Efficient" 35 W CPU. It is more than powerful enough for decoding 1080p with aggressive codecs and it will put out significantly less heat. The AMD part number for it is ADD3800CUBOX. Shop around because OcUK doesn't stock it. I have one in my HTPC and I love it.

 

[KWJay]

As i said later on in my admittedly pretty long post, the only thing i woud change would be the mobo! And the mobo you've suggested uses the same on-board graphics as the one i said i should have used. I'm not slating your choice tho Billy, i have nothing against AMD at all, but it all comes down to personal choice in the end doesn't it?!

Trouble is though, if you're looking at playing straight from BR\HD-DVD discs, LG recommends at least an C2D E6300. Oh, and if on board graphics are used, make sure its sharing at least 256mb of ram for its memory otherwise BR\HD-DVD playback could be erratic

 

[Jed Shields]

Thanks guys.

I was originally sold on the Antec case, but fell in love with the looj of the Omaura. It also has an LCD display option, so I'll be getting that as well. I'm aware that I'm paying a premium for this over the Antec. It also means that I can choose a fullsize mobo if I want.

The majority of HD playback will be through the optical drive, so I'll want it as smooth as possible. I'm favouring the seperate graphics card route in order to eliminate any possible decoding stutter that might occur from a motherboard GPU only.

CPU - I've no problem going for either Intel or AMD. As I mentioned, the most stress the machine will come under is decoding the HD content from the discs on the fly, so I want to make sure that the CPU is good enough. What do you think is the minimum spec I'd need?

Mobo - ideally I'd like a built in Gigabit connection as well ... are these common? I'll be connecting the HTPC to my network probably via a mains plug option as I've read that wireless isn't fast enough for the data transfer needed and wiring a cable is going to be a pain.

Edit: what about this mobo? http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-130-AB&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=805

Any thoughts on a quiet PSU?

What about coolers for the CPU?

 

[KWJay]

Ok, what's your budget and are you going to overclock the system at all?

 

[badbob]

It also has an LCD display option,

Please state why and how you'll use a small LCD that you cannot read from the other side of the room. I've built a couple of HTPC's and a LCD mounted on the case is totally useless. If you want a small LCD then buy a photo panel and mount it on your coffee table, or to be really posh buy a Asus EEE PC or internet tablet or Crestron remote control


Recommended HTPC already seem fine, basically 2Ghz dual core, 2GB RAM and that's about it - plus the remote control.

 

[KWJay]

I guess that the LCD will be down to personal preference. I actually like it on the Antec case and it's perfectly readable from across the room. You can adjust the contrast of the screen so it's adjustable to suit conditions, i assume the Omaura would be as well.

I'm thinking Jed is like me and likes little electronic displays!

 

[badbob]

I guess that the LCD will be down to personal preference. I actually like it on the Antec case and it's perfectly readable from across the room

I think he's talking about touchscreen LCD that's fitted on the case. When you've got the HTPC front end loaded you cannot read the front from 8' away, as the text will be tiny. If you're paying for a LCD screen you might as well place it where you sit, not where the HTPC is. Paying a extra couple of hundred for a fixed LCD. Buy a Asus EEE PC and leave that on your table instead.

You'll need a large VFD with text around 1" high to do so, ie Squeezebox sized VFD.

 

[KWJay]

Fair enough, i assumed he was talking about the VFD add on which was about £40. If its the touch screen then i'm with you, no point unless its portable. The Antec VFD allows you to change the font size to suit as well, its very adjustable via the supplied software.

 

[Jed Shields]

Please state why and how you'll use a small LCD that you cannot read from the other side of the room. I've built a couple of HTPC's and a LCD mounted on the case is totally useless. If you want a small LCD then buy a photo panel and mount it on your coffee table, or to be really posh buy a Asus EEE PC or internet tablet or Crestron remote control


Recommended HTPC already seem fine, basically 2Ghz dual core, 2GB RAM and that's about it - plus the remote control.

It will be used exactly the same way that I use the display on any DVD player etc - to display elapsed time and chapters etc.

 

[KWJay]

Thats what i thought, didn't think you'd go for the £300 touchscreen! So what is the budget then Jed and are planning to OC anything?

 

[tehgazza]

If you have a roof aerial for TV it will be fine as long as you're in freeview area. Just buy a DVB-T card and plug the aerial in. Preferably a dual tuner so you can record and watch another channel, maybe if you're thinking of a major TV distribution system get a couple of dual tuner cards.
I know this sounds stupid but if you had 3 dual tuner dvb-t cards it would be possible to simueltanoesly record every channel on freeview

For watching the virgin signal it will be a bit pants.
You'll have to use an old analog TV card and feed the signal from the virgin box. This will let you use the virgin box on the PC, but i wouldnt bother with this, cause you'd still end up using the V+ remote to set up recordings and the like. I think using 2 seperate inputs on the TV, one for the V+ and one for the HTPC would be the best.

It is possible to get cards that can pick up digital cable signals, but in the UK they are not allowed to be used (VM doesn't allow them to be used on the network). Some of these are used in partnership with your own virgin card, some you have to decrypt the signal with software (illegal)

So theres my input, nice system it looks to be what are you hooking it up to? Plasma/LCD or projector?

 

[Katoom]

Sorry to hijack guys but, is there anyway to slow down the drive when watching dvd's? I have a Vista HTPC and the noise is just to loud.

 

[KWJay]

Not as far as i know mate, gonna hve to get a quieter drive. Its not like they're expensive tho if its just DVD'd and not HD or BR. LG/Pioneer/Samsung/Nec pretty much all fairly quiet these days.

 

[tehgazza]

@Katoom depends on the make mate, some have a special acoustic speed lock. have you put unlocked RPC-1 firmware on your drive? this can unlimit the speed and it makes it louder

 

[Katoom]

I'ts a Pioneer one from this site, can't remember which one, will have to check.
Thanks for the info, i will look into it. Cheers.

 

[KWJay]

Ok Jed bearing in mind the case you're going to use i would go for...

Mobo - OcUK Value IP35 Pro Intel P35 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard £64.61 inc vat
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-000-OK&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=913

This board is a P35 board which is great for overclocking, it has DUAL Gigabit lan connections, dual digital output for audio (coaxial and optical) and basically looks like a cracking board for the price.

CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo E2180 "LGA775 Conroe" 2.00GHz (800FSB) - Retail £58.74 inc vat
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-171-IN&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat=793

From personal experience this chip is seriously worth the cash. Pretty much guaranteed 3Ghz with a bit of tweaking.

RAM - OcUK 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 PC2-8500C5 1066MHz Dual Channel Kit £46.99 in vat
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-013-OK&tool=3

Many people say 1066MHz mem is overkill, but i say it gives you headroom and at this price, why not??

Cooling - Zalman CNPS7500-8700 ~ £33 http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=57&sortby=nameAsc&subid=821&mfrid=25

or Thermalright SI-128 CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/LGA755) £29.36 inc vat
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-030-TR&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=821 (could even be used passively depending on how quick u want the comp)

whichever takes your fancy here. The Zalman is very quiet at min fan speed and with this cpu thats all you will need.

PSU - Enermax Liberty 400W ELT400AWT ATX2.2 Modular SLI Compliant PSU £52.86 inc vat
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-026-EN&groupid=701&catid=123&subcat=

I've used Enermax for the past 2-3 years and found them to be brilliant. Perfectly stable and quiet. Also this one is modular so will keep your case nice and tidy.

Graphics - HIS ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro iSilenceIII 512MB DDR2 HDTV/Dual DVI/HDMI (PCI-Express) - Retail £61.09 inc vat http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-082-HT&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=938

This is silent, built in HDMI and 5.1 surround ready for when you do. I'm pretty sure you can use either the sound on-board or use the mobo sound, which ever u prefer.

Basically all this will come to £317.18 inc vat. Thats what i would personally go for, then OC it to get its full potential.

 

[Jed Shields]

Thanks for the response guys, sorry I haven't got back as I've been away from the PC. I'lltake a look at your suggestions and get back to you tomorrow ...

Cheers

 

[atomiser]

Sorry to hijack guys but, is there anyway to slow down the drive when watching dvd's? I have a Vista HTPC and the noise is just to loud.

nero drivespeed - i've just found this and managed to halve the speed of my dvd drive so it is barely audible but still loads the dvd's very quickly. took me a while to get it working because i thought i could just set whatever speed multiplier i wanted - when i did this the pc just locked up. if, however, you just hit auto detect then choose one of the speeds from the list it ought to work flawlessly. that's my experience anyway.