High ping; need a new ISP

[b3mor]

Hi,

I'm trying to play BF:BC2 but my internet connection is being a pig. I keep getting 'you've lost your connection' messages and rubber banding constantly in game. My ping often goes out to 999 which is obviously useless! This despite being close (I'd say about 200 metres) from the exchange. I'm guessing they are screwing over the connection (I've only started playing online for the first time a few weeks back), and am probably playing about 10-15 hours a week, usually at the weekend and evenings. Had no problems for the first week or so but now every time I play, errr, I can't!

Having read the sticky I've established I can't get any LLU services so am stuck with BTw. Is there much difference between providers or are they all as rubbish as each other?

Answering the sticky questions:

Usage is mainly web surfing, some (but not a lot) of downloading and online gaming.

Not bothered about length of contract if the new provider is half decent, and don't need any free carp or broadband 'accelerators'

Oh, and if it is of any relevance, currently with Orange, who are sh1te!

Suggestions would be great!

 

[b3mor]

Hmmm well I've got some line stats for you from the router:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4960 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 7.0 db 2.5 db
Noise Margin 18.9 db 12.0 db

From what I can gather a low attenuation is best, and margin doesn't mean a lot?! Need the actual SNR not the SNR margin. Not sure if that is of any use...

Thanks for the tip about the uPnP, have switched it off so will see tonight whether it makes any difference! To be honest I think it is just Orange pulling the plug.

The thing is I don't know how much our internet usage is! There isn't much downloading but quite a lot of surfing, so it is basically just the gaming, I guess that uses quite a bit?

Any thoughts on Plusnet, their Extra package looks tempting. 60GB usage included for £18 per month.

Aquiss looks good, but I was hoping to pay nearer to £20 per month if possible.

 

[b3mor]

It is a PITA not being on an LLU enabled exchange!

Thanks for looking at the line stats, as I said I thought they should be half way decent as I can nearly see the exchange from the house! I'll read the thread you mention and see if I can make any improvements.

One thing I thought I ought to mention in case it makes a difference is that I'm using an Edimax wireless adapter. And you are right (scarily!) it is a Netgear router, DG834PN if memory serves.

Spoke with beloved Orange, they are sending a MAC. Even had the pleasure of speaking with their technical department, who appeared to have even less knowledge of the workings of the internet than me, which I thought was quite remarkable for a technical department. He just suggested I did speed checks despite me saying the download speed isn't the problem (it is carp as well, but the ping is the issue I think where gaming is concerned).

Unfortunately uPnP didn't make a difference. I tried playing again last night and had no chance, constant 999 ping, but played again this morning and it was borderline useable, ping about 150-200 for 75% of the time and then occasionally reverting to 999. But at least I got some kills in! This suggests to me that their network is simply overloaded.

I need to see if I can work out how much we are utilising the connection, I checked the other night after about 3 hours of gaming and it said 400,000,000 bytes which I think I worked out is about 400mb? The other computers (3 of them) decide to report packets rather than bytes, not sure how big or small they are...

Thanks for your help btw.

 

[b3mor]

You'd be close to/at 24meg with a more normal snr, hope it's the isps fault

Is that actually possible on anything via BTw or is that restricted to LLU enabled services?

Have you chosen who you are going to move to?

With respect to the gaming issues, experience would suggest this is associated with something like router (mis-)configuration or poor routing/congestion somewhere on the link to the server.

• Try connecting to the modem/router via wired ethernet.
• Look for any change when your PC is the only device connected to the modem/router.
• Check for improvement in the gaming experience at on- and off-peak hours.
• Look for routing issues to the game server with 'ping' and 'traceroute/tracert'.
• Could try disabling the router's SPI firewall.

No I haven’t selected a new provider yet. I am of course assuming the problem is Orange, and not something this end, but the fact that I was able to play for a week or two and since then everything has ground to a halt in the evenings indicates it isn’t anything here that is causing the problem, especially as I could half play this morning, when I’m guessing network utilisation is lower. Although even then the ping would go out to 999 occasionally.

With regard the SNR Margin, I assume this is not something the user can change, it has to be done by the provider? Do you know whether this would be changed by a new provider? Anyway, I rebooted the router last night and the statistics now show the following, not sure if it means anything to you?

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8096 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 7.0 db 2.5 db
Noise Margin 8.1 db 24.0 db

The connection speed is obviously higher and the SNR margins appear to have swapped around?!

I have done two tests on speedtester.bt.com today, one at 15:45 got 6175kbps and one at 19:45 got 5196kbps, so I don’t think there is a problem with the outright speed.

Regarding the number of devices connected to the router, of the 4 computers that use the router it is unlikely any more than 2 would be in use at the same time.

I tried the tracert command to multiplay.co.uk (not sure if this is the best example to try?). The results for the three columns were 30-40ms for the first 5 rows then row 6 showed *, 97ms, * to ae1-0.loncr4.London.opentransit.net, with the remaining steps being 40-50ms for each row to multiplay.co.uk. From the brief reading I’ve done any ‘*’ means there is a delay? Is this something to do with Orange?

I also just went to pingtest.net and it says my ping is A grade at 41ms?!

I used to be with orange and I would jump ship if I were you. They are a mass-market isp and as such are more concerned about cramming people onto their service than worrying about seemingly trivial (to them) gripes about gaming performance.

If you want to pay close to £20 a month maybe consider the Business 15 product from enta. ~£23/month with unlimited offpeak (8pm-8am and weekend) usage and 15GB during peak hours.

I know what you mean, speaking to technical support about the ping was like banging my head against a brick wall! Will have a look at Enta.

Regarding my suggestion of Plusnet, does anyone have any experience of them as a provider?

Thanks for the help all.

 

[b3mor]

Got my MAC code from Orange so I'm dragging this thread back from the brink!

I'm convinced the ISP is the problem as I can play with very few slow downs in the morning, yet tried playing last night and the ping was 999 from the off!

Anyway, options I'm considering are:

IDNet Home Lite
Plusnet Extra
Sky Broadband Connect

I am leaning towards Plusnet as they have a big peak usage allowance of 60GB compared with 10GB for IDNet, plus there is stuff on their website about how they prioritise traffic for 'time sensitive' stuff like gaming and video streaming etc. Sky might be similar to Orange?

Any feedback on the above or other ideas welcome!

 

[b3mor]

It is only a 1 year contract if you take the free modem/router, which I don't need, so I think you only have to give them 10 days notice that you want to leave.

There are just too many choices!

And it turns out Plusnet are owned by BT, hmmm.

 

[b3mor]

My opinion would be biased but if there's anything specific you want to know then ask away and I'll be happy to help.

Rgds,

Hi,

The only thing I can think of is the difference between the Extra and Pro packages. I realise the Pro package is designed specifically with gamers in mind however per this page on your website:

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/traffic_prioritisation.shtml

the priority level for gaming traffic is identical for the two packages? Therefore is there going to be much difference between the performance of the two packages for gaming?

Your website also mentions that the first 4 months is free, I assume this only applies if you take out a 12 month contract?

And lastly, I understand there is a £25 setup charge regardless of whether you opt for a 10 day rolling contract or 12 month contract, is that correct?

Thanks.

I would avoid Sky Connect.

Unable to vouch for pings, but bandwidth at peak times was dire when I visited a house using it. Reminded me of O2 Access package.

The Sky router was synced at 8128kbps, and downloads were sub 100KB/s all evening. So was a right pain trying to use it to get Windows updates.

Is everything on BTw rubbish because of BT or the providers themselves? I don’t want to waste my time switching for no tangible benefit! If only I was on an LLU enabled exchange eh?

Thanks everyone for your input!

 

[b3mor]

It has become clear that these problems only arise because everyone is trying to use the internet at the same time, i.e. weekday evenings etc. I've been playing weekend mornings over the last few weeks and whilst not perfect it is certainly playable, although it usually starts deteriorating after midday as more people come online. Hopefully with an ISP that prioritises gaming traffic I won't have any of these problems, and can offer myself up as cannon fodder on the OcUK BFBC2 and TFU servers!

Regarding interleaving, I've checked on their website and there is mention of interleaving, and the ability to switch it off if your line stats are decent, which with any luck mine should be!

I foolishly thought I'd give Orange a chance to rectify the problem, but apparently as my speeds are acceptable (i.e. I can usually download and upload without too many problems, except a Sunday night of course when everything slows to a crawl!), there is no issue with the ping! Err, wrong!

 

[b3mor]

The main differences between the two packages are the bandwidth allocation (20GB Vs. 60GB for Pro and Extra respectively) and the rate limiting that's in place on the Extra product (there isn't any on Pro).

Also *all* traffic on the Pro product is prioritised. This means that you're less likely to experience problems should you be playing a game that isn't recognised by our traffic management systems. On the Extra product unidentified traffic is given a lesser priority when compared to Pro.

It's applicable for monthly contracts as well AFAIK although you'd need to pay your setup fees up front.

Yes, unless you take our Home Phone package in which case you have the option to defer the set-up fee over 12 months. If you have a router sent to you there's also a £4.99 p&p fee that needs to be paid up front, although the cost of the router can be deferred again over the course of a year.

Hope that helps!

Rgds,

Would I be correct in thinking that if a new game is released and the traffic isn't initially identified as gaming traffic, customers can get in touch with you and you can make the necessary changes so the traffic is identified as gaming traffic going forward?

I think for my usage (i.e. gaming and surfing, usually in the evenings), the Extra product seems the best bet. I can always upgrade to Pro should the need arise!

Many thanks for clearing up my questions about the costs.

 

[b3mor]

Im currenty with orange and it Sucks! slow speeds and Massive Pings during the week, get disconnected 2 or 3 times a day for 10min. There support is terrible, cant wait till the contract ends.

I feel your pain! I have found that technical support are anything but technical!

I guess I've been lucky in that I do not usually get disconnects (the router reports it has been connected for many hundreds of hours before), but in the evenings it often gets to the stage that I'm bashing the refresh button with nothing happening! Usually coming back to it in five minutes and it starts working again.

Yep that's right, take a look here, you can check the classification of a game using Wireshark.

Rgds,

Great stuff, decision made I'm off to Plusnet!

 

[b3mor]

Glad to hear it!

I'm here if you've any further questions or have any issues during the transfer.

Rgds,

Great!

I assume cable is out of the question? I did read the thread but feel it's such an obvious suggestion that i may have missed it being mentioned.

I was never able to get decent pings on ADSL in either of my two homes over the past 10 years via various providers, 120-150ms was the lowest i'd evr get gaming but more often than not 200ms or over. I switched to Virgin 20mb a few months ago and now easily get 30-40ms pings playing FPS. I know, i know, some folks have trouble with Virgin but i've found them fantastic so far.

Unfortunately anything exotic broadband wise is out of the question. This is my exchange:

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WMLEI

To be honest a ping of 200 would be a luxury compared with what I get with Orange. I think it'll be a while until cable and LLU makes it to this exchange seeing as there are not even 1500 residential connections.

Thanks for the suggestion though!