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HITMAN Lead Dev: DX12 Gains Will Take Time, But They’re Possible After Ditching DX11
- Thread starter tommybhoy
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Then it's not really running in DX12, it's just porting an old DX11 project into an updated revision of the engine, it's running inside the DX12 wrapper but all the bits that actually make it DX12 are not connected up.
Soldato
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Well I think DirectX 12 gains will really take very long time just like developers did with DirectX 11. Developers still released lots of AAA games based on Unreal Engine 3 launched back in 2004 required DirectX 9.0c, 10 and 11 to run. But it not same thing happened with Unreal Engine 4 released back in 2012 which dropped DirectX 9.0c and 10 support, required only DirectX 11 and 12 to run. There was been really very few Windows AAA games but many very good Windows indie games in developments used latest Unreal Engine 4. I remembered played very first Unreal Engine 4 indie game Daylight back in 2014 then 3 indie games Ark: Survival Evolved, Caffeine and The Vanishing of Ethan Carter in 2015. The only first AAA game I played in 2016 is Street Fighter V.
DirectX 12 will expected to updated full features completed added Shader Model 6 and HDR that only required to use DirectX 12 at the end of 2016. Then Epic Games will release Unreal Engine 5 probably sometime in 2017 or 2018 that will drop DirectX 11 support and only required DirectX 12 to run and the first Unreal Engine 5 indie game would release sometime in 2019 or 2020 and AAA games beyond 2020 depend if games delayed further.
DirectX 12 is like DirectX 10 all over again 4 or 5 years is very long time, fanboys will replaced Geforce Volta and Radeon Navi GPUs for next generation GPUs that will take full advantage of Unreal Engine 5 games.
DirectX 12 will expected to updated full features completed added Shader Model 6 and HDR that only required to use DirectX 12 at the end of 2016. Then Epic Games will release Unreal Engine 5 probably sometime in 2017 or 2018 that will drop DirectX 11 support and only required DirectX 12 to run and the first Unreal Engine 5 indie game would release sometime in 2019 or 2020 and AAA games beyond 2020 depend if games delayed further.
DirectX 12 is like DirectX 10 all over again 4 or 5 years is very long time, fanboys will replaced Geforce Volta and Radeon Navi GPUs for next generation GPUs that will take full advantage of Unreal Engine 5 games.
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I haven't been keeping up with Vulkan news and did not know this but doesn't that mean it's almost a non starter like Mantle was? Also which platform is it not supported on, PS4 or X-one?
And some people thought that DX12 would drop and boom all new games would be on it/older engines ported over in "2 week" :S
Somewhat ironically it could be nVidia that push Vulkan to more mainstream use https://developer.nvidia.com/Vulkan they seem to be putting a fair bit of effort into making it more accessible for developers.
Soldato
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Even with a "port" I'm seeing significant gains (as in 27fps in dx11 vs. 36-38fps in dx12) in bottlenecked areas, plus an overall jump that for me means the new API speaks for himself.
For instance in this area, while moving around under dx11, the fps even dropped to 25fps, while 35 was the minimum under dx12. So that's about 30-40% higher fps in real gaming and not just some "let's create an artificial scenario to show those gains".
BTW, these are the settings.
sys: 2500k@4,5GHz, R290@1100/1425MHz.
PS: Even 980ti goes from 78 to 88 in DX12 in general, which means perhaps even higher gains in some bottleneck areas. And that's a nVIDIA (so good dx11 performance) card (so "theoretically" poor dx12 performance) with a high end CPU 6c/12t.
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DX12 certainly helps when using a weaker CPU in Rise of the Tomb Raider. I'm currently using a Phenom II X6 1090T and minimums in DX12 are 10-30fps higher in DX12 vs DX11 over the three benchmark areas, along with a slight boost in average framerate. It may turn out that, much like Mantle, it doesn't do all that much for people with enthusiast setups, but it certainly already helps take some strain off the CPU, even with these otherwise underwhelming DX12 "ports".
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Seems to me DX12 already won, nobody talks about Vulkan anymore and nobody has really announced any games for it. By the time the first proper Vulkan game is out all the major studios will have had AAAs on DX12.
A real shame if so. DX12 is platform-exclusive so not everyone will be able to make use of it. Which is why I was rooting for Vulkan. That said, Vulkan is also on a similar stage of progress to DX12, just slightly further back. People can talk the talk about it, but can they back up their words with work?
I notice that very few games come with proper support for multiple API, those that do tend to focus heavily on one or might add another later on. Because it's actual work having to make something for each one specifically. It was most noticeable for following the development of Space Engineers. Originally a DX9 game, it's over time phased in DX11 and now completely upgraded to it as default. That is a smaller indie dev working on a game still in early access however. Would we get such efforts from AAA game devs? Probably not, since they'd be shipped off to work on the next thing.
Soldato
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Moving from DX9 to 11 should be much easier than to dx12 so there isn't really a comparison.
Either DX12 or Vulkan should allow more players to have the ability to run a game if they have lower hardware, so in theory, the extra time put in development could return in more sales.
Either DX12 or Vulkan should allow more players to have the ability to run a game if they have lower hardware, so in theory, the extra time put in development could return in more sales.
It really will be very bad for PC gaming if DirectX 12 "wins". Microsoft look to be having another go at walling off PC gaming so they can monetise it woth their store, if their API is the only real option then it's just going to make it so much easier to do.
I can almost safely say that I won't be spending money on any DirectX 12 game.
I can almost safely say that I won't be spending money on any DirectX 12 game.
Soldato
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So in essence you will not be buying any game that uses a superior ip and moves PC gaming forwards. I can't seem to get on your wavelength. DX12 is the way forward after all and most are agreed on that.
You say Microsoft are winning but who exactly runs dx11 and before. DX12 is a mini win for PC in it's nature as it's a step forward but it's still owned by the those who dictate and have for many years.
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no dx12 isnt a win for PC, as long as microsoft have a foothold on console gaming, dx will never be a win for PC, dx will be the tool taking pc gaming hostage for microsoft to sell windows, dx will always be a way to hold back pc gaming to level it with console performance, or make a common denominator for games like their store that would make any progress on the API nothing more than ink on paper.
the only win for PC is Vulkan, but then how vndors and devs would step up for it, and how much pressure microsoft can pull, to drive the market away from it.
me also i wont be getting any DX12 game anytime soon, i dont wanna upgrade to win10 and not planning on getting it for at least another year, and i was really really excited about New API, but microsoft just killed that for me.
Actually I won't be buying as my operating system doesn't support Dx12 and probably never will in a full capacity.
Ubuntu 16.04 beta here. No WINE support = no worky.
But as well, I don't want Microsoft's GFWL2 platform pushed on me, so don't you think it would be a tad hypocritical if I then went ahead and used it?
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Yeah DX12 has already "won" in that regard and not really surprising but a shame in some ways.
I'm not so sure DX12 is the (right) way forward - sure some developers want more access to low level stuff but MS has gone to the extreme which is going to do more harm than good IMO - it would have been better to have an abstraction layer that could be broken down where needed to get lower level access than what they've done which is closer to making the developer reinvent the wheel from scratch every time and at every point. In this day and age we should be looking at APIs that span multiple platforms as well IMO rather than something that seems heavily tied into an end goal of pushing stuff towards UWP.
Caporegime
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Also using Ubuntu 16.04, hoping Vulkan really takes off.
AMD or nVidia? I'm considering chopping my Nano in for a 980/Ti as i'm getting fed up with the promises of half decent AMD GPU-Pro drivers.
They don't even install properly on 16.04 without mucking around with the Kernel!
