Hive, Tado or Nest? - Ideally predictive heating and Alexa control of hot water?

[NeilF]

I currently use Netatmo which is fab for central heating. It adjusts start heating start times according to performance of house and starting temps etc to get your house to a temperature at the time you state. HOWEVER, it cannot control hot water heating on the boiler.

I'd like ideally to get a replacement that allows for predictive heating to get to a temp at the time you state, and also allows smart control of your hot water. Ideally so I can have an Alexa routine to say heat the hot water for 30 mins?

Do any of the big three (Hive, Tado or Nest) offer this?

 

[NeilF]

Do you need/ plan to need smart radiator valves at any point? If so then that rules out Nest. Otherwise, Nest and Hive will do the job you require. I've no knowledge of Tado

Don't think I need smart valves.

I didn't think Hive could do predictive heating? ie: Know it needs to start heating at 5:30 to get to 17 degrees by 6:30?

And as regards Alexa routines to turn on/off hot water heating, I thought Tado could do it, but thought Nest and Hive couldn't? You recon they can?

 

[NeilF]

Tado does OpenTherm, Hive doesn't. I use Hive and am a big advocate but the OpenTerm feature was a bit of a revelation (albeit tenuous).

Ta - Will look into.

This sounds a bit snake oil. Just set what time you want the heating to come on and it'll work to get there --- the only clever bit of Hive is that it detects open windows on the smart TRVs iirc.

Predictive heating - as witnessed on my Netatmo - is fabulous:-

• You define the time you want the temp to be reached, and it just does it. It learns the heating profile of your house (ie: how long it takes to get from X to Y), and in combination with current indoor/exterior temp, starts early enough to achieve the desired temp at the desired time. Means no matter the time of year, if you want the house at 18 degrees at 6:30am, it'll be there!
• Also does smart stuff like knows the thermal inertia of your house. If I set my heating to 18 degrees it'll stat there typically with 0.1 of a degree. This incluses while heating the house up in the morning, turn the heating off BEFORE it gets to 18 degrees, because it knows the heating system will continue to warm after it's turned off.

^ All results in a very predictable and reliable outcome.

Hence me ideally wanting this behaviour on any replacement.

I've never used Alexa routines but Hive certainly works with Alexa. I can ask it to boost heating or hot water with no issues.

Ah, so if you ask Hive (via Alexa) to boost your hot water and it'll turn it on the hot water tank heating for a defined time (eg: 30 or 60 mins)?

 

[NeilF]

Tado does OpenTherm, Hive doesn't. I use Hive and am a big advocate but the OpenTerm feature was a bit of a revelation (albeit tenuous).


This sounds a bit snake oil. Just set what time you want the heating to come on and it'll work to get there --- the only clever bit of Hive is that it detects open windows on the smart TRVs iirc.

I've never used Alexa routines but Hive certainly works with Alexa. I can ask it to boost heating or hot water with no issues.

Seems Tado removed OpenTherm from the UK version? - https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/14557/why-did-tado-remove-opentherm-from-uk-receivers


Also regards the feature I love on the Netatmo where it learns the performance of your house, so it turns off the heating early and pulses it on, to maintain a temperature, rather than over shooting then only turning the heating back on when you drop below it... Someone commented in that thread above Tado struggles to do that - "And yes agree re algorithm. Doesn’t seem to learn room or house characteristics re insulation, rads etc and effect on overshoot etc"

 

[NeilF]

I have Tado, Obviously has Alexa control (pretty sure all of them do no?)
Main reason I got Tado was because it was the easiest to replace my former system with.

No issues with it, but i'm not doing anything crazy with it.

Thanks... I don't think Nest can turn water on/off via Alexa.

How do you find Tado at maintaining a constant temperature in the house? ie: If you set it to 18 degrees does it maintain it pretty well at that temp for hours on end, or does it oscillate up and down, only turning on when it drops below and only turning off when it's reached it?

 

[NeilF]

Simplest solution may be just to wire up a separate Hive mini for hot water only? Or whatever is cheapest.

Given how good Netatmo is at heating, beginning to think to simply schedule hot water and allow Alexa routines to turn it on/off, this is the best solution. Question is can a separate unit control just hotwater (in this fashion) and which makes the most sense...

 

[NeilF]

Oh, slightly worrying news about Netatmo as regards their product support/lifetime?

From IFTTT:-

We are writing to let you know that the Netatmo Thermostat service will be removed from IFTTT on April 21st, 2023. Unfortunately, the Netatmo team is no longer available to support the integration.​

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We appreciate your understanding and apologize for the inconvenience.​

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You can try using Webhooks to recreate your Applets or explore the other Environment control & monitoring services that are available.​

 

[NeilF]

Given Netatmo never responded to my email asking if their new unit can control my hotwater or not, that doesn't give me a good feeling.

My plumber strongly recommends Hive over Nest, and indeed it's what he uses...