Home electrical wiring help - adding an uplighter

kippermitten · 27 Aug 2006 at 15:39

Hello.
Its diy Sunday in sunny Glasgow....or possibly a trip to A and E!

Im adding uplighters into the living room and doing the preliminary work and would like some advice.
Currently I have a single gang lightswitch that controls the ceiling light, I want to add an up lighter near this switch and use a two gang switch to control the lights seperately. I looked behind the light switch and only have three wires, red, blue and yellow. This makes me think that the power is thru the light no thru the switch so: Can use the power from these wires to power and control two lights?
If so, looking at the attached diagram, how would I wire the sitch socket? Can I bridge the L1 and L2 from th existing wires to the 2nd gang?
Any help appreciated!

Kipper of Mitten - soon to be possibly fried!

Raumarik · 27 Aug 2006 at 15:46

No advice on the electrics but go to Wishaw General when you hurt yourself, free parking and oodles of lovely nurses!

Werewolf · 27 Aug 2006 at 15:51

Are you sure it's only red, blue and yellow?

There should be an earth as well (green/yellow or green if done properly, bare conductor if done in a half baked manner).

The yellow/red/blue colour scheme suggests that the switch is a two way one, with another switch somewhere also controlling the light.

kippermitten · 27 Aug 2006 at 15:56

Werewolf said:
Are you sure it's only red, blue and yellow?

There should be an earth as well (green/yellow or green if done properly, bare conductor if done in a half baked manner).

The yellow/red/blue colour scheme suggests that the switch is a two way one, with another switch somewhere also controlling the light.

Sorry, my bad, yes theres a 2nd switch which also controls the ceiling light on the opposite side of the room and yes, a sheathed earth is with the red, blue and yellow wires.

Sorry about that!

Biohazard · 27 Aug 2006 at 15:58

[BOOM!!!!!]

kippermitten · 27 Aug 2006 at 21:06

PANTS! Thought I had it....

Any ideas whats wrong?

Werewolf · 27 Aug 2006 at 21:16

apart from the fact you've got two lives and no neutral there? (the "common" is for the two way switching and not a neutral iirc)

From your description th switch you are going from is the second of the two used in a two way switching circuit, in which case it may not have a neutral going to it (most light switches don't have both a live and neutral).

Seriously if you aren't sure get a qualified electrician in to help (i'm in no way qualified and half asleep).

Myth · 27 Aug 2006 at 22:31

What you are doing is totally wrong, you cannot take the supply from that light swtich. What Werewolf said is correct, you are trying to take a supply from the second of the two light switches in that circuit. The common is not for a neutral, in fact there should be no neutral in a light switch on 2 Lives. And another thing I have noticed is it looks like you have connected a Live through a Neutral, which is not a good thing and would explain why you are getting a "dim" light.

What connection names do you have in your up lighter? Do you have Live, Loop and Neutral?

But my advice is to get a qualified electrician in. The job is in fact a lot hard than just taking a supply from a light switch. You will need to pull up your floorboards in order to re-route the new cables you will have to put in.

VIRII · 27 Aug 2006 at 23:54

Is he still alive?
Get a sparks in, it is the safest way and as of now the only legal way as well.

Adam_151 · 28 Aug 2006 at 00:56

VIRII said:
Is he still alive?
Get a sparks in, it is the safest way and as of now the only legal way as well.

That is, I'm afraid, incorrect, DIY electrical work remains, as legal as ever, however some of its now notiofiable to your building control dept. (and like drainage and windows, it quite often gets overlooked) however what the OP proposes to do is not notifiable, it does however come under the scope of the building regs and requirement P1 requires it to be basically done in a safe way. Anyway thats the requirements for England, the poster appears to be in glasglow, and the situation is different in Scotland, however it is I believe still not notifiable unless he is in a flat.

As to the problem... as others have pointed out, you have no neutral at that switch (its pretty rare to have a neutral at a switch... though becomming more common slowly) you need to get a new feed to the switch, ideally from the lighting circuit, but if not, then an FCU on the ring will do, but take this option and you'll have to put one of the 'isolate from muliple sources' stickers on your switch (best way to so this without it looking poo is to use mk grid system and put it on the grid frame)

Adam (competant electrical DIY person and CG2330 student from 06/09/06

)

Justintime · 28 Aug 2006 at 01:09

Good luck with the 2330, its a breeze and if things stay the same you'll prolly overestimate the toughness of the final exams, the practical ones are much harsher than the theory, the final C&G 2330 questions were shockingly simple, so tough it out and know all the stress is mostly hype

VIRII · 28 Aug 2006 at 01:16

Adam_151 said:
That is, I'm afraid, incorrect, DIY electrical work remains, as legal as ever, however some of its now notiofiable to your building control dept. (and like drainage and windows, it quite often gets overlooked) however what the OP proposes to do is not notifiable, it does however come under the scope of the building regs and requirement P1 requires it to be basically done in a safe way. Anyway thats the requirements for England, the poster appears to be in glasglow, and the situation is different in Scotland, however it is I believe still not notifiable unless he is in a flat.

I thought that he had to have that work checked and certified by a qualified electrician and had to include details of it in his sellers pack?
The way it was described to me was anything behind the socket needed to be certified eg. running a spur from a ring main.

Werewolf · 28 Aug 2006 at 01:20

/makes not of Adam's details for future reference

2 way switches are a pain in the backside (in my opinion), especially when the builders haven't bothered with 3 core + earth - i had to try and sort out a friends attempt to replace a 2 way 2 gang switch the other day.
The builders hadn't bothered marking the wiring so it had 3 sets of normal twin + earth going in to the switch which made working out which wire was which a bit of a fun exercise

The thought of 3 and 4 way light switches gives me nightmares

kippermitten · 28 Aug 2006 at 10:15

Im still alive!

Looking over I see the problem as described above, thanks guys.
I will indeed be taking a feed from the ring main which is just below the switch, its the easiest way as the floor isnt coming up and we may be moving at some point so less work now the better

Ta fer all the replies chums :-)

phykell · 28 Aug 2006 at 12:08

VIRII said:
Is he still alive? Get a sparks in, it is the safest way and as of now the only legal way as well.

You are still allowed to work on your own electrics, it's just that there are now restrictions on what you can and can't do. As far as I know, adding a light to an existing circuit is just fine. It's the fitting of new circuits and working in certain zones such as kitchens, bathrooms and external wiring which fall under the new (ridiculously stringent) regulations. However, you're still allowed to fit, for example, a new spur to an existing ringmain or a new light to an existing circuit. I believe you're also allowed to replace existing wiring and fittings.

Kippermitten, go here for some lighting circuit diagrams:

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7553

Jonny ///M · 28 Aug 2006 at 12:25

Werewolf said:
/makes not of Adam's details for future reference

2 way switches are a pain in the backside (in my opinion), especially when the builders haven't bothered with 3 core + earth - i had to try and sort out a friends attempt to replace a 2 way 2 gang switch the other day.
The builders hadn't bothered marking the wiring so it had 3 sets of normal twin + earth going in to the switch which made working out which wire was which a bit of a fun exercise

The thought of 3 and 4 way light switches gives me nightmares

Thats how our hall lighting is! I was like wtf at the 3 reds,2 blacks a seperate black and an earth. Its also how i got a shock off the bottom switch when working on it,hadent turned off the top lights and didnt think about it being on a loop. :rolleyes: