Home Nas/Server CPU & MB help

[xenon20]

Hi All,

I’m going to build a home NAS and backup device, but in due course will also want to use as a server for Media, Home security, Router/Firewall, and probably more.

I’ve been reading up about ECC memory and the extra benefits it provides. Sounds like the general advice is, it’s not necessary but is extra security for your data, and if you can afford it, you should use it. Do you agree / disagree with this?

I have a budget of around £350-£400 for CPU/MB/RAM/CASE.

I recently ordered THIS cheap CPU/MB/RAM bundle from AliExpress, but having doubts if it is the right choice for a number of reasons:

1) I have a Ryzen 7 2700X which is unused and would love a new home, and according to THIS page, it supports ECC when used with a X570 board.
2) Looking at THIS comparison it suggests the R7 would outperform the Xeon E5-2650 V4 by a decent margin.
3) Lack of support for cheap Chinese boards I.e manufacturer support, driver support etc
4) Quality & reliability of components

Another factor is that this is going to host multiple HDD’s (intially x4 but possibly up to x8 in the future) I’m most likely going to use an HBA card for additional SATA connections which will use up a PCIe slot, so I’m debating if I should go with an ATX board over an M-ATX board for better expandability options for the future.

So my questions are:

1) Should I...

a) give the AE combo a chance

b) Return the AE combo, look for an X570 board to use with 2700X (for ECC)

c) Return the AE combo, look for a cheaper board like X470, B450, X370, B350, or A320 to use with 2700X (No ECC)

d) Sell the 2700X, return the AE combo, buy an intel CPU (maybe something like THIS) and appropriate MB

e) Something else


2) M-ATX or ATX ? This will then allow me to choose a suitable case.

Any advice or guidance would be most appreciated.

Thanks
X20

 

[Tetras]

and according to THIS page, it supports ECC when used with a X570 board.

So far as I know, ANY AM4 board can support ECC if the manufacturer provides support, though even if the ECC works it doesn't mean it is fully supported. Asus listed support for a lot of their boards.

Zen+ is not officially supported by B550, but it still works fine in many boards.

Sounds like the general advice is, it’s not necessary but is extra security for your data, and if you can afford it, you should use it. Do you agree / disagree with this?

There's a few things I'd consider:
- What backup strategy you have, e.g. if you are taking full backups regularly that are independent than an error in one is less important. The same applies to the number of copies you have of that data.
- Do you archive your backups using compression software? If you do, a corrupted files can be a bigger deal than e.g. 1 corrupted file in an archive of 10,000.
- How critical is the data? E.g. if you can just redownload the TV shows or whatever, then it isn't important.

The main benefit of ECC is that you know it has gone wrong and don't have silent corruption for long periods that messes everything up, but I wouldn't buy it just because you're afraid of the odd file being corrupted.

I’m debating if I should go with an ATX board over an M-ATX board for better expandability options for the future.

It depends on the board you buy and the graphics card used, but generally: you may have to go ATX if you need lanes (physical or electrical). If you can afford to use the primary slot (e.g. headless) then it would be a moot point.

buy an intel CPU (maybe something like THIS) and appropriate MB

If you want ECC I would not buy a 12400F because it doesn't support ECC and you'd be potentially be using a graphics card (the non-F would not need one). The 12500 and up support ECC, but only in a motherboard that supports it and they tend to be very expensive because you need a different chipset to the consumer (B660/B760) boards. This is part of the reason I still run an 8th gen PC, because the boards were relatively affordable.

 

[xenon20]

ANY AM4 board can support ECC if the manufacturer provides support, though even if the ECC works it doesn't mean it is fully supported

So do the 2000 Ryzen CPU's support ECC no matter what, it's just the MB that is the limiting factor?
What are the implications of it working vs being fully supported? In THIS example, with pinnacle ridge, Is it telling me that ECC is "fully" supported?

Zen+ is not officially supported by B550, but it still works fine in many boards

So it'd be a gamble as to whether it'd work or not on any given B550 board? I assume to be sure I'd just have to choose a board which states that it supports ECC with pinnacle ridge (like in the case above)?

What backup strategy you have, e.g. if you are taking full backups regularly that are independent than an error in one is less important.

Probably a combination of full and differential backups, and a parity drive in case of a drive failure.

How critical is the data?

Not very, nothing mission critical, or with financial ramifications.

If you can afford to use the primary slot (e.g. headless) then it would be a moot point.

It would be used headless the majority of the time, Would just need graphics for initial configuration but I have an old GPU for that and then could swap out for HBA card once complete. Was just thinking about what other cards I may want to fit at a later stage, and if I should go ATX should that need arise. EDIT: I think M-ATX would probably be fine TBH.

If you want ECC I would not buy a 12400F because it doesn't support ECC

Oh, bad example then!

I think it makes most sense to either go with the AE bundle that was crazy cheap to keep the cost down, or buy an AM4 board for the 2700X (this would also allow me to chuck something like a 5800X in it also should the need arise). If I went the latter route, and based on the discussion do you have any recommendations on what good value M-ATX board that supports ECC would fit the bill? My ASRock X470 Taichi has been superb, so I'd probably be tempted (but not essential) to go ASRock again, but a cheaper board.

 

[xenon20]

I've ordered THIS to use with my 2700X & THIS case

 

[Tetras]

So do the 2000 Ryzen CPU's support ECC no matter what, it's just the MB that is the limiting factor?

Correct. All Ryzen CPUs support ECC memory, EXCEPT the APUs, they do not support ECC unless they are a PRO version.

The motherboard support varies and that is the problem.

What are the implications of it working vs being fully supported? In THIS example, with pinnacle ridge, Is it telling me that ECC is "fully" supported?

That looks like it is supported in the ECC function. IF the board supports ECC, but does not run it in ECC mode then it will normally say "ECC runs in non-ECC mode" or something like that.

There is an old article on Hardware Canucks called "ECC Deep Dive" (here) and it walks you through it, but basically:
1. Does the ECC actually work, despite what the motherboard claims?
2. Do the ECC errors get logged properly and reported to the OS?
3. What happens when there is an error? E.g. is it just silently logged, corrected and nothing happens?

If I give you an example, say the ECC does actually work and the error is corrected, but it is not logged and you never know it happened. This is bad, because memory which produces errors tends to produce more errors and you need to know it happened (i.e. to replace the bad module) and the PC needs to respond to it, because the whole point of having ECC is that you do not want silent corruption.

I've ordered THIS to use with my 2700X & THIS case

My memory is fuzzy because it was awhile ago I researched it, but I think ASRock was one of the manufacturers that had full support. Back then, I'd say MSI had none and Gigabyte was very few.

 

[xenon20]

Correct. All Ryzen CPUs support ECC memory, EXCEPT the APUs, they do not support ECC unless they are a PRO version

That's good to hear, because when I looked at THIS it says that ECC is not supported for the 2700X (under the architecture section). I guess that's wrong then.

the whole point of having ECC is that you do not want silent corruption

Indeed, I read the article. It's a shame to hear that it's not fully reported by the OS's, or that the system is halted when a multi-bit error is detected.

I'm planning to run either Unraid or TrueNAS initially which I believe are FreeBSD / Linux based. What I'm not so sure about is which one to choose. I believe one of the benefits to Unraid is that you can use HDD's of different sizes, whereas with TrueNAS they all need to be the same size.

I hear that with TrueNAS you can use the ZFS filesystem which apparently is very good (and better when used with ECC)(not sure but I think this may be possible on Unraid now as well?). Obviously then the is the fact that TrueNAS (core) is free whereas Unraid is license based.

Do you have experience, views or guidance that might steer me in one direction or the other?

 

[Tetras]

Do you have experience, views or guidance that might steer me in one direction or the other?

No. I think the servers or SFF forums would be a better place to ask about that than general hardware.

That's good to hear, because when I looked at THIS it says that ECC is not supported for the 2700X (under the architecture section). I guess that's wrong then.

Unfortunately AMD pulled their official specs for the older Ryzen CPUs, so I can't find any confirmation for you except: "Tetras says so".

 

[xenon20]

No worries on both accounts. Thanks for your help and advice.