Home Network Wiring Without Master Socket

[Jengo]

Hi All,

Ive recently moved into a 6 year old house that has no internal BT master socket (it has an external grey box like this one: https://bt.i.lithium.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/7251i559BB0E5542E0458?v=v2) so i only have stanard phone sockets internally (like these http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/images/phone/LJU3_front_faceplate.jpg)

This means i can pick up my broadband from any of the 5 or so internal standard BS 6312 phone sockets by using a BS 6312 to RJ11 filter, but really i want to keep all of my network hardware in one place (ideally cupboard at the top of the stairs) so i can run hardwires to various rooms in the house via the loft.

This would mean i want to bring a CAT5 hardline into the cupboard from the nearest phone socket to my router. I'm happy to tack this along/behind the skirting board then through the wall into the cupboard, but can i replace the standard UK phone socket i want to run it from with a socket that has a built in filter, rather than have a filter hanging out the front of it?

Does anyone have a link to where i can buy a pre filtered socket and how i would wire the current UK phone socket to this new one instead?

 

[the-evaluator]

Have a look at https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/mk4btopenreachvdslsocket.html you'll be able to get one cheaper than that.

Wiring should be a direct replacement for what you already have

 

[TechMinerUK]

Hi All,
Ive recently moved into a 6 year old house that has no internal BT master socket (it has an external grey box like this one: https://bt.i.lithium.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/7251i559BB0E5542E0458?v=v2) so i only have stanard phone sockets internally (like these http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/images/phone/LJU3_front_faceplate.jpg)
This means i can pick up my broadband from any of the 5 or so internal standard BS 6312 phone sockets by using a BS 6312 to RJ11 filter, but really i want to keep all of my network hardware in one place (ideally cupboard at the top of the stairs) so i can run hardwires to various rooms in the house via the loft.
This would mean i want to bring a CAT5 hardline into the cupboard from the nearest phone socket to my router. I'm happy to tack this along/behind the skirting board then through the wall into the cupboard, but can i replace the standard UK phone socket i want to run it from with a socket that has a built in filter, rather than have a filter hanging out the front of it?
Does anyone have a link to where i can buy a pre filtered socket and how i would wire the current UK phone socket to this new one instead?

You can still get standard sockets with filters like this one (Linky). Just remember the longer the run to the socket the more chance of signal degradation. Personally I'd have the modem as close as possible to the socket and run the CAT5/6 from their to the network cabinet to a switch

 

[Jengo]

You can still get standard sockets with filters like this one (Linky). Just remember the longer the run to the socket the more chance of signal degradation. Personally I'd have the modem as close as possible to the socket and run the CAT5/6 from their to the network cabinet to a switch

Thanks, the cable run from the socket to the cupboard would be around 10-15m maximum i think depending on the route i take, so hopefully degradation over this length shouldn't be an issue?

The other option is that extend the line from behind the phone socket up into the cupboard, then place a filter in the cupboard somehow, rather than putting a filter on the socket, i'm not sure which is a better option?

Problem with locating the modem down with the phone socket is that there are no power sockets, just a phone socket (top house planning Taylor Wimpey...)

 

[bremen1874]

The broadband doesn't need to be filtered. Line filters only affect the voice side of things, the broadband passes straight through.

You need to make sure any any phones connect via a line filter. You can plug the modem in directly or via an unfiltered hardwired extension.

I'd connect a length of Cat5e or CW1308 back to the external master socket, or to a convenient internal socket. In the cupboard you can terminate it to a RJ11 or RJ45 socket or crimp a RJ11 plug onto the end.

 

[thenewoc]

We had this situation too but when we went fttc BT replaced our first socket inside the property with a conventional NTE5 Master and removed the capacitor from the external Master.

You could replace you're first socket inside the house with an NTE5 Master so that you can then fit a filtered faceplate, which fits over the top of part of the NTE5 Master. Once you have the filtered faceplate fitted, you could use one of the unused telephone pairs to connect to the internal filtered punch down connectors inside the filtered faceplate.

Assuming the next extension is the one connected to the new master you could then change the faceplate on this extension to an RJ11 and connect the telephone cable pair that you used to connect to the filtered connections on the filtered faceplate connected to the master. Then use some jelly crimps on the original telephone pair that comes from the master and crimp to the outgoing cable that daisy chains on to the next extension.

If your extension next to the cupboard isn't the next one to the master then use jelly crimps on the colour pair that you used for the filtered connection, on the cable inside the extension next to the master and so on and so forth depending on how many extensions are between the master and the one you want to pass the service through to.

 

[Jengo]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input so far, i've had a quick sunday snoop around and i just want to post a few images to make sure im heading the right direction!

This is the box/external master socket i have outside: http://imgur.com/FfhqE2t

This is the first socket in the house (just inside front door): http://imgur.com/x0HpLyK / http://imgur.com/feHSC8t

Here is the ideal cable run id like to do (outline in red):http://imgur.com/XMDpdaT / http://imgur.com/zbAer0w - This heads up the stairs to the the cupboard which is on the left. I'd run the cable through the wall at the top of the stairs skirting board into the bottom of the cupboard.

Here's the inside of the cupboard showing internet run in red, power in blue and likely location of router/modem/patch panel etc in green - http://imgur.com/fV4AKTh

The red circle is a gangbox containing some random 7 or 8 core cables each labelled as one of the rooms in the house - http://imgur.com/ZhBdOZC / http://imgur.com/fR3tqxV - any ideas what this could be?

2nd part of the plan would be to run cat5 up into the loft, then down into the corners of the 2nd bedroom/office where my main PC is and a run down into the corner of the living room to do TV/PS4 etc.

would i be able to wire the new master socket the-evaluator listed above (https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/mk4btopenreachvdslsocket.html) to replace the one at the bottom of the stairs http://imgur.com/x0HpLyK ?

Also would it be possible to just wire cat5 into it the new master socket and have it run out of the bottom of the socket, rather than wire the socket and plug a cat5 cable into it (just think that would look a little neater...!)?

thanks in advance!

 

[Caged]

Lmao someone let electricians run data cabling again.

Your unknown cabling looks like it's for a burglar alarm sensors - not uncommon for developers to run all the cabling and then if you don't take them up on their overpriced offer of having an alarm installed they chop all the cables at the room end, because they are house builders.

I would rip every wire out the back of the master socket you have at the moment, and take the wires out the grey external socket as well. It looks like the wires have been pre-stripped and then two inserted into a connector designed for one, which is going to cause issues. Pull everything out and then just connect 2 and 5 from outside to A and B on your new master socket - using the same pair, convention says this should be the blue / white-blue pair. You can then wire an unfiltered extension off the VDSL filtered faceplate to go upstairs, and filtered extensions to feed back to the rest of the house for telephone service.

 

[thenewoc]

Are all of those multicore cables that look like they're for an alarm system the same type of cable? Seems a bit odd that they wouldn't also include one that runs to the telephone socket.

You could also run a telephone cable up the outside wall (maybe cable tied to the rear of a drain pipe) and connect it to the external master and then bring that cable into the loft and down into the cupboard. In fact you could mount the socket into the ceiling in the cupboard to save wall space which looks a bit tight with the placement of those existing sockets.

I think I would be inclined to loose some of the storage on the shelf and put the patch panel and switch on the back wall of that cupboard near to the ceiling as it doesn't look like you have space at the side.

 

[Jengo]

Lmao someone let electricians run data cabling again.
Your unknown cabling looks like it's for a burglar alarm sensors

Are all of those multicore cables that look like they're for an alarm system the same type of cable? .

I'd say your both bang on there, each room has little 1/4 size cover panel in one of the top corners which has an unterminated 8 core behind it, so obviously for wiring alarm sensors, so they are of no use to me!

Going up the outside of the house might work, but can i have both wiring for an external line up the outside of the house AND wiring for the internal sockets going into the house both wired into the external master socket without that causing issues? (i.e can i bi-wire the external master socket so to speak?)

I would rip every wire out the back of the master socket you have at the moment, and take the wires out the grey external socket as well. It looks like the wires have been pre-stripped and then two inserted into a connector designed for one, which is going to cause issues. Pull everything out and then just connect 2 and 5 from outside to A and B on your new master socket - using the same pair, convention says this should be the blue / white-blue pair. You can then wire an unfiltered extension off the VDSL filtered faceplate to go upstairs, and filtered extensions to feed back to the rest of the house for telephone service.

If i went this way, can i just cut anything inside the outer master socket, other blue/white blue, back to the outer sleeve to get them out of the way and go blue -> 2 / white/blue -> 5? Then the same for the internal phone socket, but away anything (from the external line) that isn't blue/white blue, then wire blue -> A / white/blue ->B on the new master socket i'll install?

how do i go about the phone line wiring after that, as i assume the rest of the phone sockets are wired in series and require their wiring to go through this socket? In this image (https://imgur.com/x0HpLyK) im assuming the line coming in the bottom of the from the external socket, so this would be by blue/white blue to A/B on the new socket, then the 2 lines at the top must be going off to the other phone sockets?

Should i just take the 2 blue, 2 brown and 2 orange from both of these lines, chocolate block them together to i end up with 1 blue, 1 brown and 1 orange and then wire those as to the back portion of the new master sockets as per page 1 and 2 here - https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/MK4VDSLNTE5Cinstructions.pdf ?

apologies for all the questions...

 

[thenewoc]

It's quite hard to see from the photos what exactly is going on with some of it. Is there more than one white cable / set of pairs connected at the moment to the external socket?

Firstly what I would do is neaten up the external box. I would lift the clear cap that has 2,3,5 embossed on it and straighten out all the coloured pairs but still keeping each coloured pair in its own twist. Once you have them all straighted out, cut some of it back so they're all the same length, 6 inches of the twisted pairs in addition to the existing white outer casing should be ample. Then tease out the blue pair from the rest and bend the others over on them self and give them a twist in the middle. Now all the ones not in use are in a neat bunch and you can just work with putting the blue pair back into 2 & 5 connections as before. You'll need to strip back a small bit of the outer casing on the blue pair before placing them back into the 2 & 5 connections but you only want to strip just enough as necessary, not how it is at the moment with the copper showing proud of where the connection actually takes place. Connection 3 and the orange wire is optional, it's the bell wire and isn't often used anymore. Keep the orange pair intact with the rest of the coloured pairs in case someone wants it in future.

One thing that seems a little odd is you say you have 5 or more internal telephone sockets. However, the hallway socket doesn't look as though it has this many extensions so someone seems to have been somewhat creative it seems. It's like someone has given you a mix of a star topology where some extensions feed from the hallway socket and I presume some of your other extensions must be spurred off of socket(s) that are fed from the hallway socket.

When I moved in to my home the previous owner had wired an extension from the outside master as they had put their TV in the opposite corner of the lounge and needed a telephone extension for their Sky box. This corner of the lounge is on the outside wall so it was the best way for them to do it for cosmetic reasons as there was no visible cabling internally. The socket worked fine and I think in many ways it's better than a typical extension that is usually daisy chained off the previous as that adds to the number of joins. I have since removed it because personally I didn't like the cable running around the outside of the house since that side of our property is a shared path and the cable was accessible at ground level to possible malice interference.

The other thing I meant to say is that with the number of extensions you mentioned does that not mean the bedroom next to the landing cupboard already has an extension? If that is the case then surely it would be neater to install an additional extension socket next to that existing bedroom one and then run a shorter length of trunking / cable from there to the cupboard.

Back to the internal extension nearest the front door. I would replace that faceplate with a filtered faceplate like the one you linked to which is a combo master socket and filtered faceplate. You shouldn't see any copper core on the coloured pair connections as they make their connection when punched down into the IDC connections on the back of the faceplate and at the same time any excess from the twisted pairs going into an IDC connection are trimmed off by the punch down tool (also called a Krone tool).

There are two separate lots of connections on the inside of the filtered faceplate, one is the unfiltered (broadband) service and the other is filtered for telephone extensions. If one of them cables in the extension nearest the front door is for the bedroom next to the upstairs landing cupboard then you can use the unused green coloured pair from that cable to connect to the unfiltered extension connections and then use the blue pair to connect to the filtered extension connections. The blue pairs from the rest of the cables can connect directly to the filtered extensions IDC connections. You should be able to do away with having them brass screw down cable connectors being used. If you don't want so many blue pairs connecting to the filtered extension IDC connections then you can get some gel crimp connectors and crimp each of the individual blue pair wires together first before taking the final one on to the IDC connections on the faceplate.

In the bedroom telephone extension socket you could do with a new back pattress box if you want both sockets to be flush to the wall. You can get a dual single gangs pattress box which will have a central divide to provide another set of screw holes so you can attach two single faceplates to it. If the socket is on an outside wall then the pattress box will be metal, otherwise if it's an internal hollow plasterboard wall then it will be a plastic / dry lined type pattress box. Using one of these you can tease out the green pair from the existing cable and poke it through to one side of the new pattress box. The existing blue pair would be fed into the other side of the new pattress box. You can then attach the blue pair to the existing faceplate and attach this to the new pattress box. Buy a new RJ11 faceplate for the other side and connect the green pair to this. Get a decent quality twisted pair cable with a RJ11 connection on one end and whatever connection you need on the other to suit your modem or modem/router and lay this between the new socket and wherever suits best inside the hall cupboard. If one of the walls in the cupboard is an outside wall then I would favour this to attach a wall mounted network rack as you'll be able to use some coach bolts and associated plastic wall plugs, which hold the gear better than the internal partition walls will. If all 3 sides of the cupboard are partition walls then I would buy a small network cabinet that can be ceiling mounted but you will probably have to fix some wooden battening across the ceiling first to span the ceiling joists and so that the wooden battening lines up with the mounting holes of the cabinet.

Or

If your existing pattress box is deep enough you could replace the faceplate on the bedroom extension with a single gang dual euro slot faceplate, this has a big enough hole to accept 2 euro modules, 1 rj11 and 1 telephone extension, like these:

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/RJ11module.html

 

[Jengo]

Thanks thenewoc,

bedroom/office does indeed have a phone socket, 2 in fact!
Here's how they look inside :http://imgur.com/LJuWjtb - im assuming they have piggybacked the left socket off the right one as there are two incoming cable to the right socket?

Would it be more sensible to replace the left one of these with the new filtered faceplate and run a wire along the wall from there the cupboard?

The sockets (along with 4 power sockets) are located under the makeup desk on the left here - http://imgur.com/nikPyiJ - the wall to the left of the makeup desk is the back wall of the cupboard so i could go up that wall and into the cupboard from there i suppose?

Would putting the filtered faceplate here make any difference to broadband speed compare to putting it down by the front door?

 

[bremen1874]

How many of these sockets are actually going to be in use?

Have you tried plugging a router into any of the sockets to see how good/bad the broadband sync actually is?

 

[Jengo]

How many of these sockets are actually going to be in use?

Have you tried plugging a router into any of the sockets to see how good/bad the broadband sync actually is?

Neither of the phone sockets in the bedroom are going to be used and the router works fine off the sockets using a standard plug in filter, but i want to locate the modem/router in the cupboard to keep it out of the way and make it easier to run cables up to the roof neatly.

 

[thenewoc]

Thanks thenewoc,

bedroom/office does indeed have a phone socket, 2 in fact!
Here's how they look inside :http://imgur.com/LJuWjtb - im assuming they have piggybacked the left socket off the right one as there are two incoming cable to the right socket?

Would it be more sensible to replace the left one of these with the new filtered faceplate and run a wire along the wall from there the cupboard?

The sockets (along with 4 power sockets) are located under the makeup desk on the left here - http://imgur.com/nikPyiJ - the wall to the left of the makeup desk is the back wall of the cupboard so i could go up that wall and into the cupboard from there i suppose?

Would putting the filtered faceplate here make any difference to broadband speed compare to putting it down by the front door?

Not necessarily. Both of those sockets could be taking an independent cable run from the socket in the entrance hallway. The second cable in the right socket may be taking the service on to the next extension in another room. If you disconnect the cable pairs from both those sockets you can undo both metal pattress boxes so you can get a better idea of whether the cable is routed as you say from the right to the left by pulling it slightly. To remove them pattress boxes you will need to use a craft knife first around most of the edge of the pattress box (avoid the top edge where the cable comes in) so that you don't break a chunk of plaster away.

Since that wall in the bedroom is a side wall of the property you may be able to go in to the loft and run a length of cat5e cable down the wall between the concrete block wall and the dot and dabbed plasterboard, on the side furthest from any electrical sockets. You can be lucky and have a centimetre or so gap which providing the dot and dab isn't in the path you want your cable to follow could be a way to link that socket with the cupboard. If you can do this using some cat5e which you can get made up with the necessary connector on one end for the modem, then you would need to crimp an RJ11 on the end that you would bring out the wall just beneath the left one of those two sockets.

Otherwise if you can't feed the cable down inside the wall then you could run a length of cat5e from the front of that left hand socket along the top of the skirting board and then make a hole into the cupboard.

As for the filtered faceplate I think the best place for that is in the downstairs hall as that extension would appear to be the first socket fed from the outside master and it has a number of other extensions fed from it. The filtered faceplate would be filtering the telephone cables you attach to it and in turn other extensions that piggy back off of these cable feeds in other extensions. You can't very successfully do that with the bedroom socket as most of the other telephone extensions don't run off from there so you'd still have to use fly lead type filters on the rest of the telephone extensions.

So instead of using Euro Modules since you already have two pattress boxes where one can be repurposed and it looks like Wimpey have used Deta Electrical Slimline faceplates as they did in ours, what you need is an S1354 (page 14) http://www.detaelectrical.co.uk/Slimline.pdf

 

[Jengo]

Thanks thenewoc,

I've picked up on the cheaper dual socket filtered face plates (see here: https://imgur.com/a/23SRq) so ill swap the first socket by the front door with this for now.

Am i correct in sayingthe blue and white/blue from the outside line (bottom incoming line here: https://imgur.com/x0HpLyK) should go to 2 & 5 on the left of this new socket, to provide an unfiltered socket ADSL socket on the front?

Should i then join the blue and white lines from the out going 2 lines at the top together and punch these down into F2 and F5 to get filtered lines going off to the rest of the phone sockets in the house?

 

[bremen1874]

Sounds about right.

Don't join the wires together and then punch them down. If there are multiple wires just punch them down individually into the same IDC.

Don't strip any of the insulation from the individual wires before punching (as they are at the moment).

That socket must win the award for the fewest number of components used to create a line filter. I assume that it'll work, but it looks nasty.

Have you worked out what's going on with the two cables running to the outside and those connecting blocks? It's all horribly messy, and shouldn't be done like that anyway.

 

[thenewoc]

Hi Jengo,

In essence yes but it was hard to see whether you have 1 or 2 cables coming in to the property from the external master socket.

In the hallway socket you have 3 other cables in addition to 1 at least which comes from the outside socket. You only have 2 blue pairs punched down in the original socket, so it looks like the brass connector block things have been used to join one of the cables first prior to taking the output of those joins on to the termination points.

Whilst your disconnecting the hallway socket I would tease out all of the twisted pairs from all of those cables (without taking any more white outer cable casing away) so you can remove the brass connector blocks and then punch all the blue pairs relating to the extensions down into the F2 & F5 connections. If you do these one at a time you could plug a phone in to the extensions and test which has dial tone and then label the cable up so you know which cable relates to which for future reference.

If you identify which cable relates to the left socket in the bedroom then you might want to leave that unconnected at the moment or leave it until last to punch down to the F2 & F5 connections.

At the moment that will just give you a filtered service at all of the other extensions so it will need changing if you want to connect a modem to one of the other extensions. For now just the extension in the entrance hallway will be available for a modem to connect to.

 

[Jengo]

Thanks both,

I'll have a fiddle around tonight and see what they have done with the connection blocks!

 

[Jengo]

so after some experimentation, it would appear the socket by the front door has 2 lines running in from the external master socket and 2 lines running out

One of the incoming lines is twisted together with one of the outgoing lines and punched down into the socket. the outgoing line then runs to 4 of the 5 other sockets in the house.

the 2nd line coming in is blocked together with the 2nd outgoing line, which runs up to one of the sockets in the 2nd bedroom.

I tried fitting the new socket i brought by removing and untwisting the current lines in the socket, then punching the incoming to 2 and 5, then the outgoing to F2 and F5, but this didn't give me a dial tone on any of the sockets (other than the straight through line in the 2nd bedroom). I removed the outgoing line from the new socket so it was just wired to the incoming from outside and it gave a dial tone fine, but obviously only on the 1 socket, so it appears to be an issue with outgoing line being wired to the new socket.

ive put the old socket back on and wired it as before and its all working again but obviously im back to square one!

Hopefully though, as there is a straight through line to one of the sockets in the 2nd bedroom, i can just fit a filtered faceplate to that and run a short CAT5e along the skirting, up the wall and into the back of the cupboard where i want to situate everything?