Home server update Dell T20 - Proliant ML10 or Proliant Gen 8 micro

decto

decto

decto

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Hi all,

Looking to update my home sever and considering options.

Current server is an AMD X4 640, MSI 785gtm-e45, 4GB DDR2, 4x3TB, 1x1TB (cctv) and 1x 64GB SDD (boot)

Running WHS2011, Plex, blue Iris (cctv), local shares, backup for 4 win 10 machines.

Running fine at the moment, mainboard is quite old, say 7 years or more but has solid caps and chokes. It was originally in a media centre. CPU was updated 2 or 3 years back when the x4 640 was beer money.


WHS2011 is now in the security patch only phase and I want to set up a pfsense firewall and some retro game servers for internal lan which can be spun up as required.

This brings me to virtualisation either with Xen or EXSI however with only 2 dimm slots getting beyond 4GB costs more than a new basic server so I'm shopping!

I also have a N40L filled with a collection of 1TB drives, that doesn't run full time, used as an backup archive to make use of the drives.

My current CPU doesn't give me any issues and it actually idles around 40W with the drives spun down. The dual core pentium based servers seem to have about the same grunt as my X4 640 so they are a starting point, however in the longer term I'd rather consolidate all into one system, with perhaps a slave for file backup elsewhere.

Likely VM's
WHS2011 (firewalled to lan / no incoming ports on wan) backup + swimbo friendly file sharing.
PFsense (have a 4 port Gbit HP PCI-E card)
Dedicated plex instance (linux)
Dedicated plex instance (linux) (U, PG rated)
Dedicated linux server (mumble, file share, torrent + any other random services)
Dedicated linux server (games)
Other on demand VM's


The ML10 with cashback is currently favourite as it's the V1 version with 6 sata, 1board mounted usb and a better config of PCI-E slots. This would accommodate the x4 port network + an m.2 PCI-E adapter while leaving at least one x4 and x1 PCI-E available for any further expansion. This will take a xenon 1225 v5 but this would be in addition to the base cost. I could buy the base unit now with an extra 4GB of memory and then update with the Xeon and another 16GB later in the year. Can sell the pentium, but not likely to get much for it
.
However the T20 Xenon version with cashback is practically the price of the CPU, however it is a 1225V3 so older version and DDR3 and comes with a 1TB HDD which can be used sold on making this a better deal, however it has less PCI-E slots and only space for 4 sata drives so likely I need to switch to larger capacity disks or offline some of the storage.


Any experience running plex / whs etc on the dual core pentiums?

Anyone have a M.2 PCI-E driver working with either EXSI or XEN, data transfer on these should be ideal for multiple VM's. Thinking the more expensive samsung's here. Currently have a Sandy Bridge i5 2500T (45w) in an old board with an SSD which I've been trialling with Xen. Seems snappy enough so more bandwidth can only help. This also keeps the other SATA for storage.

Any other options? I have considered various second hand options but anything sandybridge or later is still comparatively expensive and ex rack servers would need to be tamed or rehoused which some adds cost.
I could use another consumer board, however in this upgrade I would like to go to ECC Udimms.

Thanks

AD
 
crinkleshoes said:
What about this?

http://www.natex.us/Intel-S2600CP-M...650-SR0KQ-6-p/s2600cp-cpu-64gb-12800-2650.htm

More than enough power to run everything you want simultaneously.


I have the 2x 8-core, 128gb ram configuration which is a bit more expensive - but it's great :)



(shouldn't count as a competitor link as they only sell second hand server hardware - apologies mods if I'm mistaken)
Click to expand...

That looks a cracking bundle. I'm fairly confident a xeon quad and 16GB would run my planned VM's and this is a lot more powerful. (4x)

What were the customs and delivery charges like?

Edit:

Also got me looking at LGA2011 prosumer boards, I hadn't noticed that even the single socket boards are compatible with the the multicpu xeons
 
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decto said:
That looks a cracking bundle. I'm fairly confident a xeon quad and 16GB would run my planned VM's and this is a lot more powerful. (4x)

What were the customs and delivery charges like?

Edit:

Also got me looking at LGA2011 prosumer boards, I hadn't noticed that even the single socket boards are compatible with the the multicpu xeons
Click to expand...

DHL express was about $50 (took 3 working days) and import tax was 20% VAT + a £12 charge from DHL.

Yeah - I did a lot of searching along those lines too... but I ended up with this as I found that I would have paid more money for a board + single cpu + ram than I did for this combo and this combo is already tested working, so cuts out some concern of buying different items from different sources and having trouble.

For the price you can't beat it... couldn't find anything comparable from a UK supplier for less than £1k.

Will happily run all of your VMs and more simultaneously :) Should be cheaper than ML10 + Xeon too... especially when you factor in the RAM upgrade as well.

Only extra expense was a new PSU as my current one didn't have a high enough current on the -12v rail. But even that was only £50ish.

It's more the cost aspect as to why I recommended that... the bonus is the extra horsepower for potential future use... I don't see myself upgrading it again for another 5+ years unless it breaks before then. Compared to what you're looking at, I think this is a cheaper option and it has the bonus of being able to do more if/when you want it to. The extra power usage is minimal and even taking that into account, I think it'll still be cheaper over the years as the hardware is new enough to have decent low power idle states.
 
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What's the wattage/power usage on those bundles? Already have an E5-2660 here with 64gb but considering the jump to duals with 128gb
 
crinkleshoes said:
DHL express was about $50 (took 3 working days) and import tax was 20% VAT + a £12 charge from DHL.

Yeah - I did a lot of searching along those lines too... but I ended up with this as I found that I would have paid more money for a board + single cpu + ram than I did for this combo and this combo is already tested working, so cuts out some concern of buying different items from different sources and having trouble.

For the price you can't beat it... couldn't find anything comparable from a UK supplier for less than £1k.

Will happily run all of your VMs and more simultaneously :) Should be cheaper than ML10 + Xeon too... especially when you factor in the RAM upgrade as well.

Only extra expense was a new PSU as my current one didn't have a high enough current on the -12v rail. But even that was only £50ish.

It's more the cost aspect as to why I recommended that... the bonus is the extra horsepower for potential future use... I don't see myself upgrading it again for another 5+ years unless it breaks before then. Compared to what you're looking at, I think this is a cheaper option and it has the bonus of being able to do more if/when you want it to. The extra power usage is minimal and even taking that into account, I think it'll still be cheaper over the years as the hardware is new enough to have decent low power idle states.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, in rough figures its around £400 delivered for the 32GB bundle or £500 for the 128GB bundle. Both of these are the C1 stepping where the vt-d doesn't work.

The more expensive C2 version with 128GB is around £600 delivered.

Add in £200 for a case, psu and a couple of coolers (have assumed standard heatpipe S2011 will fit) and we get to £600 - £800 depending on config.



Do you know which CPU version you have and have you used it for virtualisation? I only need to pass through quad networking as I assume an M.2 card would sit in DOM0.

Have you plugged it into a power meter? I'd be interested to know the idle usage, I'd assume 80-100W with a couple of discs spinning.



The T20 with 24GB ECC and an Xeon comes in around £360 with the current cashback offers so quite a jump.

HP Xeon would be closer to £500 as ECC DDR4 seems a fair bit more expensive.

Lot of extra poke, however at the cost, may well be overkill. The nerd in me is excited though.

Thanks again
 
Praetorian said:
What's the wattage/power usage on those bundles? Already have an E5-2660 here with 64gb but considering the jump to duals with 128gb
Click to expand...

About 200W according to this review:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2012/03/06/intel-xeon-e5-2670-review/7

A bit higher than I had expected, but still not unreasonable.

decto said:
Thanks for the info, in rough figures its around £400 delivered for the 32GB bundle or £500 for the 128GB bundle. Both of these are the C1 stepping where the vt-d doesn't work.

The more expensive C2 version with 128GB is around £600 delivered.

Add in £200 for a case, psu and a couple of coolers (have assumed standard heatpipe S2011 will fit) and we get to £600 - £800 depending on config.

Do you know which CPU version you have and have you used it for virtualisation? I only need to pass through quad networking as I assume an M.2 card would sit in DOM0.
Click to expand...

2x E5-2670 SR0H8

Sounds about right... bonus for me is that it's going through my business and so I get to reclaim the VAT & I'm getting £550 for my previous server components (5820k, 32GB) :)

I have no use for PCI-E passthrough. Even with wanting to run pfsense on this - I'll just be using virtual network adapters in bridge mode for it. Do you need the passthrough? You'll still be able to use the network card / m2 card without any problem.

Yes standard S2011 will fit - just be aware that the sockets are relatively close to each other (although not tight) so things like the behemoth air coolers won't fit... but I picked up 2x Noctua NH-U12DX i4 for mine.

The main point of this system is for virtualisation :)


Have you plugged it into a power meter? I'd be interested to know the idle usage, I'd assume 80-100W with a couple of discs spinning.
Click to expand...

No, I don't own one - apparently it's around 200W idle.


The T20 with 24GB ECC and an Xeon comes in around £360 with the current cashback offers so quite a jump.

HP Xeon would be closer to £500 as ECC DDR4 seems a fair bit more expensive.

Lot of extra poke, however at the cost, may well be overkill. The nerd in me is excited though.

Thanks again
Click to expand...

That's a lot cheaper than I thought for the T20... is that a quad-core xeon or dual core?

Unless I'm mistaken about your intended use for the PCI-E cards... the cheapest 64GB option should be enough for you? Still more than the Dell... but close to the HP price.
 
200W is over £200 in electricity per year. Not to mention heat and noise.
 
Hi Crinkleshoes,

Thanks for the extra info on power consumption.

140 - 200W is quite a lot, likely to be £100-£150 per year more than the Xenon at idle, and given fairly low workload I'm expecting a fair bit if idle time.

The T20 with Xeon E3-1225 v4, 4GB, 1TB is currently at £220 after cashback, basically the price of the CPU. ECC Udimms are approx £25 per 4GB or £100 for 2x8GB from crucial, kingston etc. If you shop around and don't buy the official Dell validated modules.

Have seen a set of 4x4GB kingston ECC Udimm @ £65 so could be looking at a 16GB Xeon for £285 less any cash from selling on the existing 4GB dimm and 1TB drive making it a cheap option. Likely to need to buy a PCI-E to sata and a couple of extra drive bays for the 6x3.5" mod but that's beer money.

HP fair bit more expensive as I have to buy the CPU at retail and ECC DDR4 udimms seem to be more expensive.

The 2670's seem a great system, and while I want one, I don't think I have the workloads to support the increased purchase cost and higher power consumption. The whole point of virtualization is to do less with more I expect I'd have the server ticking over with a single part used core a lot of the time.

I am quite tempted to pick up a OCUK clearance or members market s2011 board and then grab a CPU at some point out of interest to play with as a work station, but as a daily driver, I don't think my workload supports such a beast. Currently everything is running fine on an Athlon X4, the Xeon will be 3x the compute and 4x the ram even at a conservative 16GB.

Great info and thanks for taking the time to offer up an alternate option, but unless something else comes up, I think the Dell wins on price while still being ample for my needs. At least that's what the economist in me says!

Regards

AD
 
decto said:
Hi Crinkleshoes,

Thanks for the extra info on power consumption.

140 - 200W is quite a lot, likely to be £100-£150 per year more than the Xenon at idle, and given fairly low workload I'm expecting a fair bit if idle time.

The T20 with Xeon E3-1225 v4, 4GB, 1TB is currently at £220 after cashback, basically the price of the CPU. ECC Udimms are approx £25 per 4GB or £100 for 2x8GB from crucial, kingston etc. If you shop around and don't buy the official Dell validated modules.

Have seen a set of 4x4GB kingston ECC Udimm @ £65 so could be looking at a 16GB Xeon for £285 less any cash from selling on the existing 4GB dimm and 1TB drive making it a cheap option. Likely to need to buy a PCI-E to sata and a couple of extra drive bays for the 6x3.5" mod but that's beer money.

HP fair bit more expensive as I have to buy the CPU at retail and ECC DDR4 udimms seem to be more expensive.

The 2670's seem a great system, and while I want one, I don't think I have the workloads to support the increased purchase cost and higher power consumption. The whole point of virtualization is to do less with more I expect I'd have the server ticking over with a single part used core a lot of the time.

I am quite tempted to pick up a OCUK clearance or members market s2011 board and then grab a CPU at some point out of interest to play with as a work station, but as a daily driver, I don't think my workload supports such a beast. Currently everything is running fine on an Athlon X4, the Xeon will be 3x the compute and 4x the ram even at a conservative 16GB.

Great info and thanks for taking the time to offer up an alternate option, but unless something else comes up, I think the Dell wins on price while still being ample for my needs. At least that's what the economist in me says!

Regards

AD
Click to expand...

That Dell does seem a great bargain for a quad core :)
 
crinkleshoes said:
Let's go with 140W.

140W x 24 = 3.36kWh per day

= 1,226.4 kWh per year

Which is about £100, isn't it? Been a while since I looked at leccy rates.
Click to expand...

Really depends on your current rate and how your provider splits the cost between fuels and any standard charge.

I pay standard charge and the a lower rate for electric. Mine is almost exactly £1 per year to run 1watt. Just under 12p per kWh if I recall.

The reviews you linked at least the first one also had a GPU which will bump up the idle. Quadro equivalent of GTX480, a card known for its hunger. Don't remember for the second one.

Users are reporting the basic T20 idles below 30w which is pretty impressive. I assume that is no drives spinning.
 
crinkleshoes said:
Here's my update... near enough 2000 points in cinebench :)
IMG_0128 by CosmicLogos, on Flickr

IMG_0127 by CosmicLogos, on Flickr

Capture by CosmicLogos, on Flickr

Capture2 by CosmicLogos,
on Flickr
Click to expand...


Nice looking build, 0% CPU, 6% memory ... probably how my system will be.

Ordered the Dell in the End, not my first choice, has one less PCI-E x4 (electrical) than I'd have liked so will most likely stick to SATA for HDD and I can use the X1 in the short term or a raid card in the longer term.

Have considered a PERC 310 as TBH, raid 1 would be fine for my throughput and drives would be independently backed up.

Which Raid do you have?
 
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