Hot Hatches

timbob · 15 Apr 2006 at 18:26

Righto - more thinking out loud from me....

Situation:
The Cavalier is going in a few months time after I finish my first year at work and I get a 6 1/2 week summer holiday to car hunt. I was thinking along the lines of a 200sx - but for the 350-400 miles a week I do, fuel would bankrupt me, and the insurance, although reasonable at £800, is still a bit steep. So I'm probably ditching that idea, and going for something a touch more sensible.

The requirements:
I have up to £4k to spend. Whatever I buy has got to be reasonably new (10 years max) for reliability purposes - it has to work 99.9% of the time. It's got to be fun to drive as I'm tired of driving a boat. It's also got to have some sort of boot - enough for clarinets, flutes, the odd saxophone, and a box of music/paperwork. Nothing huge to transport, but out of sight storage is a must. I don't want anything slower in a straight line than the Cavalier (~100bhp/tonne), but it can't chew petrol, due to my mileage for work. 30mpg would be a minimum I'd be able to live with. Obviously I'm not going to be able to get something ballistic, but something with a usefully revvy and willing engine and good handling would be cool. Ideally not Jap for parts availability/cost either.

Going through the various options, I seem to be left with only hot hatches. Things like Pug 106 Rallye/GTi, Saxo VTS, Clio 1.8 16v/Williams. They're all around the 7-8 second to 60 mark, known for handling well, not too bad on fuel, being 1.6s (the Clios aside)...

What are the opinions of the car's I've listed above, and does anyone have anything to throw at me from leftfield that I've totally forgotten to consider?!

timbob · 15 Apr 2006 at 18:28

[TW]Fox said:
Clio 172.

Not quite down into my sub £4k bracket yet unfortunately, and ~£800 on insurance, as opposed to £500 for the Clio Williams.

timbob · 15 Apr 2006 at 18:36

I know the 200sx isn't a hot hatch - it's a turbocharged Japmobile, with a healthy appetite for fuel. Hence why I discarded the idea! If I didn't need a car for work, that would be what I'd go for though.

I'd do my homework with a Williams. I'd preferably look for a 2 or 3, a later M or N plate with low miles. The most expensive ones on autotrader are only £4.5k, so I'm in budget for a decent one.

The Xsara VTS is a good call, although they have a repuation of being a little fuel thirsty don't they? 170bhp from an NA 2.0 is fairly highly stressed. That said, what are the Williams Clios like on fuel?

timbob · 15 Apr 2006 at 18:58

Does it really matter what it is?! I'd call the 200sx a Coupe. The Fiat Coupe is (rather surprisingly) a coupe! Even if the Xsara becomes a coupe on a technicality, to my mind it's still a hot hatch. [edit] I was unsure of the boot opening on one, but thanks for proving the point fox! (Even if it had a coupe/saloon boot, it'd still be a hot hatch though!)

IMO

Back to the suggestions.... What do people think of the Peugeot 106 Rallye S2? I got my behind whupped by one the other week, which made me start to think of one!

timbob · 15 Apr 2006 at 19:21

Kitchster_uk said:
If you're doing the miles I would think about an alternative to the 106 Rallye. I was not too impressed with the comfort factor, but it wasn't really designed with that in mind. Performance is great but you'll get baaaaaaaaaaad MPG driving it how it should be/wants to be driven. Driving it like grandma on a Sunday afternoon negates the point of getting it in the first place.he Williams will also be a feul whore for similar reasons so if that is your main concern, go DIEsel (sudders at the thought).

If you are going to buy performance, the 200SX isn't a bad option, especially if you're doing motorway miles as you'll be off-boost most of the time. My S13 could do 35mpg if I didn't lampoon it around (though I only normally averaged about 25 because of said lampooning).

So, if you want rapid and fun for 4k, bye bye Mr Fuel Economy and if you want Fuel Economy for 4k, bye bye mr Rapid and Fun

I'm not too worried about the comfort factor to be honest. As long as a car isn't 100% stripped out to the metal inside, that's fine.

A good deal of the 400 miles I do per week is A/B roads. Perhaps only 30-40% is dual carriageway. I've done some reading on the SXOC forum, and I think fuel economy would be a killer given the way I drive.

I'm not overly bothered about a hugely rapid car, just one that isn't too bad on fuel, as well as fun to drive (this will be a weekend hoon car as well as a weekday workhorse). I'm not after 50mpg, but by the same token I couldn't cope with sub 25mpg. Something that's fast enough, while still returning 30mpg is fine by me - I'm fully aware that fun and frugal don't come in the same package. I'm also positive driving a 103bhp Pug 106 rallye hard isn't going to use anywhere near as much fuel as 200bhp worth of turbocharged 200sx - I do tend to drive any cars I drive quite hard.

timbob · 15 Apr 2006 at 19:28

Yes, but couldn't justify getting a Zetec S when I could buy a slightly older 1.7 Puma for the same money. And the problem with a Puma is my mum and a good friend have one already...

Can't be seen to be following the crowd can we?!

timbob · 15 Apr 2006 at 20:09

=GAMMO= said:
Not into fiat punto's by any chance My other halfs sporting is a lovely car to drive goes alright for a 1.3 but the hgt i bet that goes well with a 1.8 engine, i actualy like driving my wifes punto for comfort than i do the saxo vts just an idea

A Fiat.... I said it had to be reliable, remember!

On a more serious note, I'm not a fan of Puntos at the best of times, sorry!

timbob · 15 Apr 2006 at 20:34

I'm sure the 200sx would be fairly economical off boost... The question is whether I'd be able to restrain myself for the 3+ hours I spend in the car every day at work! The answer - probably not!

Been looking around a little more... What's the 106 GTi like compared to the S2 Rallye? My understanding is that it's a 1.6 16v (8v in the Rallye), with a bit more in the way of interior trim? As such, weighs a little more, but goes about the same?

timbob · 15 Apr 2006 at 21:34

Morba said:
3 hours a day in a car and you want a hot hatch?

go for a barge, you could have something very nice for that price range

The main reason for the change (apart from the Cav failing an MOT, and some potential big problems on the horizon) is that I'm bored of a barge.

A mate has just got hold of a Mk1 Astra - stripped out to the metal, bucket seats, XE in the front... I would be a bit cautious about spending lots of time in that day to day, but anything with doorcards even - bring it on!

The interior of the 106 GTI, with half leather seats looks like a positively luxurios place to be to me... Part of the reason the Rallye appeals - I'm a bit of a stripped out racer purist at heart.

timbob · 16 Apr 2006 at 00:03

Gixer said:
106 rallye has been mentioned, why not the 306 GTI-6

Superb handling and a lovely close 6speed ratio box, I would be a bit biased though as I have one

It has been mentioned, in Xsara VTS guise

Good cars, if a little highly stressed engine-wise, giving poor mpg if driven hard.

timbob · 16 Apr 2006 at 00:06

[TW]Fox said:
Sounds like you are bored of naff old banger Cavs. Every car is different.

You might manage a 528i for £4k. Expensive to run but... completely different to a cav

Oi! Banger Cavs! Might not be quite in the same league as your mondeo, but for £1300 when I got it, it's great. Same power as the mondeo, it's lovely condition inside, air con, electric everything, cheap to run and maintain. I've done over 50,000 (almost) trouble free miles in it, and I'll be sorry to see it go.

But it does handle like a boat.

Was looking at 328s earlier. Would have gone for a test drive this afternoon if the dealer wasn't on holiday!

I'm leaning towards a nice condition, low mileage 106 GTI at the moment... Any comments?!

timbob · 16 Apr 2006 at 11:08

m1ke said:
They really don't (Imo ). What are you comparing it too if you think the '6 handles poorly?

Perhaps his Clio 172?! Only the best handling hot hatch in recorded history!

timbob · 16 Apr 2006 at 12:33

Aye, I think I said that I wouldn't be after a Clio 172 in the 3rd post in the thread after Fox suggested one. I've decided against the 306 GTI as well for various reasons.

I think for the money, having something chuckable, fun and not horrendous on fuel, I'm leaning towards the 106 GTI.

Shame it's easter weekend, as there's a couple within afternoon visit distance of me at the moment, I would have gone for a test drive to see if I liked how they drove. That said, I used to drive mum's 1.1 106, and loved the way that handled.

[edit] Leaning slightly away from the Clio Williams unfortunately - I've been doing some reading around the forums, and they seem a little fragile. I've gotta have something that's fairly bulletproof.

timbob · 16 Apr 2006 at 12:46

Gilly said:
I think the 106 sounds like exactly what you want tbh.

The 4k revs@70mph might worry me slightly though.

I was thinking that... I'm used to the Cav being a low revver at speed. I guess I'll need to drive one down a dual carriageway and see how I feel.

Perhaps it'll curb my speeding on the motorways where I'm more likely to be snapped. The Cavalier feels so stable and comfy at 90+, doing less than 4000rpm that it's hard not to do so.