House of the Dead Overkill

Robert1986 · 20 Jan 2009 at 22:34

February 13 UK

Phatjayunoi · 20 Jan 2009 at 23:20

Nice to see another House of the Dead game, and especially for the Wii. That gun attachment is much more interesting than the Wii Zapper.

Still, I wish that there was a "proper" lightgun peripheral for the Wii without the use of the stupid and slow responsive on-screen cursor. I mean for god's sakes, can't developers just make a proper game with it and use the Gamecube control ports for a decent wired gun for true authentic gameplay.

Kreeeee · 20 Jan 2009 at 23:32

No, because they don't work on LCD screens without some form of Wii based method.

Bengaboy · 20 Jan 2009 at 23:44

I am getting a boner over this game! Love HOTD since the 2nd one on the dreamcast, and have bought HOTD 2 & 3 for wii and its a right nostalgia trip!

Kreeeee said:
No, because they don't work on LCD screens without some form of Wii based method.

I knew about that - but how come? Dont understand why it wont work?

Streeteh · 20 Jan 2009 at 23:48

It's due to the manner in which CRTs refresh. Basically the old guns had a small light sensitive diode in the barrel. CRTs refreshed by scanning down the screen over and over. When you pulled the trigger the game would time how long it took for the 'scanning' effect to reach the point the gun was aimed at (which would be a matter of miliseconds) and by that work out where the gun is aimed on the screen.

This effect would be enhanced in many games by making the screen flash for one 'scan' (you'll notice the screen flash in time crisis for example). This allows the diode in the gun to more effectively detect the 'scan'.

New LCD TVs refresh the entire image at once iirc, as a result the old method doesn't work.

Bengaboy · 20 Jan 2009 at 23:54

Streeteh said:
It's due to the manner in which CRTs refresh. Basically the old guns had a small light sensitive diode in the barrel. CRTs refreshed by scanning down the screen over and over. When you pulled the trigger the game would time how long it took for the 'scanning' effect to reach the point the gun was aimed at (which would be a matter of miliseconds) and by that work out where the gun is aimed on the screen.

This effect would be enhanced in many games by making the screen flash for one 'scan' (you'll notice the screen flash in time crisis for example). This allows the diode in the gun to more effectively detect the 'scan'.

New LCD TVs refresh the entire image at once iirc, as a result the old method doesn't work.

Ahhh I getya.

So the only way is the "wii" method then at the moment?

Streeteh · 20 Jan 2009 at 23:57

The wii remote has a primitive infra red camera at the tip, the Wii 'sensor bar' is actually a set of infra red lights. The wii mote is then able to work out its orientation according to where the infra red light are appearing.

The downside of this technology is that the way in which the wii mote detects its orientation is completely unrelated to the screen it is tied to. Whether it be a 20" or a 200" television the area in which you aim the remote is the same. This results in the pointer not actually lining up with the aim of the remote correctly in many situations. This is what turned me right off of umbrella chronicles and the wii zapper; the fact i was aiming according to where the pointer was on the screen, not according to where i was pointing the 'zapper'.

Bengaboy · 20 Jan 2009 at 23:58

Streeteh said:
The wii remote has a primitive infra red camera at the tip, the Wii 'sensor bar' is actually a set of infra red lights. The wii mote is then able to work out its orientation according to where the infra red light are appearing.

The downside of this technology is that the way in which the wii mote detects its orientation is completely unrelated to the screen it is tied to. Whether it be a 20" or a 200" television the area in which you aim the remote is the same. This results in the pointer not actually lining up with the aim of the remote correctly in many situations.

Ahhh I getya even more!

You're so smart!

Streeteh · 21 Jan 2009 at 00:04

It's worth noting that the technology isn't done for. The gun that came with the new time crisis title used a pretty much identical setup to the Wii with one important difference; the two infra red lights weren't stuck together. You actually hung them on either corner of the television (within reason, the cables wouldn't be long enough for a huge television), this allowed the aiming to be calculated relative to the size of the television, with a little calibration (which fortunately should be able to get it working on a huge tele too) it was very close to being as good as the old CRT solution imo

Sadly the game itself sucked so the peripheral never caught on, good to know that it's possible to get a decent lightgun setup on a LCD though for the future.

Phatjayunoi · 21 Jan 2009 at 01:28

A certain import site has a lightgun model that is supported for LCD screens and is at a good price. Course, I have no idea how well it would work though. Have been tempted to buy it but just never bothered since I still have an old 38" CRT that is perfect for older lightguns.

snakeater · 21 Jan 2009 at 20:44

Gah! So I take it my old Guncon 2 won't work with my new HDTV?

>sigh<

Also, I can see what you mean with Umbrella chronicles, it didn't feel like a lightgun game because of the aiming system, felt like a pointer.

So not too hyped about this. Trailer seemed good though, embracing the B-movie side of things.

Streeteh · 21 Jan 2009 at 21:04

Sadly yes, your guncon 2 will no longer work. Also the guncon 3 has no backwards compatiblity so basically just keep a little crt in the house if you feel like some light-gun action.

I've still got my old copy of The Die Hard Trilogy and guncon 1 sat next to an ainchent CRT at my parents house. Now i just need to figure out where it'll fit in my flat...

PiKe · 21 Jan 2009 at 22:37

Re: Time Crysis Gun... Could you not make your own sensor bar in 2 halves and use that instead of the supplied one? Would that not eliminate the problem of aiming where the pointer is rather than on screen?

Hayley-K · 22 Jan 2009 at 08:55

No joke I was just thinking the same as the poster above. I remember that fat asian guy doing lots of IR stuff with wii kit.

Streeteh · 22 Jan 2009 at 09:08

PiKe said:
Re: Time Crysis Gun... Could you not make your own sensor bar in 2 halves and use that instead of the supplied one? Would that not eliminate the problem of aiming where the pointer is rather than on screen?

I assume you're talking about the Wii here?

I imagine it's possible but would require a hell of a lot of effort to figure out EXACTLY where each infra-red light must be placed for a 1:1 aiming setup. However, one issue i can see being a problem is the fact that the Wii can tell its 'distance' from the sensor bar by how far apart the two emitters appear to it, though i am unsure of the implications this would have, it could render the solution useless as it'll just think you're standing really close to the television. Also, the Wii remote becomes unhappy if it can only see one of the infra-red lights so if they're too far apart it won't work at all. However, there are other problems the Wii suffers from such as a poor response time; if you move the pointer it is a little slow in reacting to this, i can only assume this is a limitation of the way in which the connection between the Wii itself and the infra-red camera is established, causing a delay.

I've read Guncon3 overcomes the whole one visible light issue by flashing the infra-red emitters out of phase with eachother. This means the software is able to determine which of the two infra-red emitters it can see at the time according to what its frequency is. When calibrated correct, the guncon 3 is pretty accurate. The Wii basically just has two sets of infra-red light bulbs attached to a power supply, it is unable to determine which is which and therefore if it can only 'see' one then it is unable to determine its orientation.

In short, with the hardware currently suppllied with the Wii, i'd rate it as pretty much impossible to get a 'decent' light gun setup. Sure calibration software for a light-gun game would allow it to accomodate a 1:1 aiming system for most teles, but problems such as the lag between your input and it will mean it'll never be as good unless the lag is a software feature (which i doubt)

PiKe · 22 Jan 2009 at 09:14

Very detailed answer there, thanks

PiKe · 7 Feb 2009 at 17:04

Couple of reviews up on the internet, it's got an 80 and an 83 it seems to be only let down by a few technical problems and it's length but seems that it is the best light game gun on the Wii

XPE · 7 Feb 2009 at 17:18

I see egde gave it an 8 as well, i think ill pick this up, i really like Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles and have been waiting for a good light gun game to come alone that isnt a port.

XPE · 15 Feb 2009 at 18:19

I got this game the other day, great game, good old fashion light gun game with funny dialogue, the game is a bit short tho.

any one else pic it up ?

Streeteh · 15 Feb 2009 at 19:33

Does it have some form of aiming calibration before you begin to allow for 1:1 aiming? That's pretty much a must for me after umbrella chronicles; a potentially good light gun game soiled by the fact that you aimed according to the icons on screen, not according to where the remote pointed.