How can BT be this bad???

TechnoCorruption · 30 Mar 2006 at 19:18

I originally had my Broadband with AOL and was getting 2mb unlimited for £30 a month, because of all the problems I had with them I decided to try BT out, worth noting that all the problems I had with AOL were things like taking too much money and being complete dumb idiots on the phone and nothing to do with speeds or thier service.

So I migrated to BT, the option I took was 2mb + 40gb Usage for £30, now that I have connected I now only get 1mb as apparently my line cant handle 2mb, am I right in thinking though as AOL rent the lines of BT that there is no way they can supply 2mb and BT can not.

They are also just as useless on the phones, I was trying to get through for a hour a week ago and was just put on hold or fobbed off to someone else, I gave up in the end and decided to write them an email, 4 days later I got an email back and guess what it said, "We cant discuss this through email, give us a call" :mad:

I have tried to phone them again tonite and was put on hold for 30 minutes before slamming the phone down, how can a company be this useless and has anyone else had problems similar to this?

KnightStalker · 30 Mar 2006 at 19:33

isnt BT and AOL the same thing now? or am i just thinking of something different.

Scottland · 30 Mar 2006 at 19:34

It's possible that you are on the borderline for 2meg, and when you had 2 meg installed it was borderline enough to pass but you were syncing over 45dB - which is the limit they give for 2meg lines. (Even though service has been fine)

Now that you want to migrate, they can see that you're syncing over 45dB and the system has automatically stepped in and set it at 1meg, as it's in theory out of limits for a 2meg line.

Your option in this case would be to speak to a human being and explain that you've been fine on 2 meg etc, and insist that they try and force it through with BTW to get it regraded to a 2meg line.

Incidentally, BT Broadband, BT Yahoo!, and AOL (along with many ADSL providers) rent the line from BT Wholesale in effect. So it's perhaps not BT [Whatever]'s fault, but the systems on BTW's side of things.

The other option, is that since having your 2meg line put in, the line has somewhat degraded in quality, knocking you over the limit as it were.

iamgud · 30 Mar 2006 at 19:46

Move to an 8mb product and it syncs at the best speed, so you don't have to worry about BTs limits.

and also switch to Zen,

tolien · 30 Mar 2006 at 20:06

Current attenuation limit for home2000 is 43dB - without your current stats (and the result from the BT checker), it's hard to comment.
Like iamgud says, IPStream Max eliminates this joy.

Scottland · 30 Mar 2006 at 20:46

tolien said:
Current attenuation limit for home2000 is 43dB - without your current stats (and the result from the BT checker), it's hard to comment.
Like iamgud says, IPStream Max eliminates this joy.

I thought that the 43dB figure was a pre-install figure, i.e. before ADSL is already on the line?

My memory isn't what it used to be, but doesn't the reading gain a few dB once ADSL is provisioned on the line, hence the limit adopts a similar increase?

iamgud · 30 Mar 2006 at 21:00

There is no way to tell the db on the line until it is up and running. All these checkers are just estimates.

You are correct though, when you increase the ADSL soeed the stats do get worse, generally the SNR is reduced and the Attenuation slightly increased.

MAX DSL will start at 8mb and keep slowing down until it becomes stable, usually an SNR of about 10. (slightly low if you ask me, I think Zen LLU is more like 12

BTs limits are all about the attenuation, I have a high attenuation so according to BT I am just able to get 1mb. (the checker said I would be lucky to get 512k.) But because my margin is quite high, I estimate that if I was to go for MAXDSL I could maybe get 3mb.

tolien · 30 Mar 2006 at 21:11

Scottland said:
I thought that the 43dB figure was a pre-install figure, i.e. before ADSL is already on the line?

No.

My memory isn't what it used to be, but doesn't the reading gain a few dB once ADSL is provisioned on the line, hence the limit adopts a similar increase?

It does. That's why the limit's 43dB.

WOMBATWILSON · 30 Mar 2006 at 21:14

iamgud said:
MAX DSL will start at 8mb and keep slowing down until it becomes stable, usually an SNR of about 10.

nope the snr is gona be 6

TechnoCorruption · 30 Mar 2006 at 21:18

Thanks for the helpful replies, I sent them another email and I couldnt believe it when this happened........ .........They phoned be back within an hour :eek:

They basically gave me a load of waffle about we have run checkers and you can only have 1mb, so I asked them if they could try forcing it as suggested above or sending out a technician to actually check the rates at the exchange, but they were not having any of it.

I asked them if there was anything I could do to end the contract early and had a reply of "legally binding blah blah blah you pay us loads of money blah blah blah", so I have the Manager phoning me up tomorrow to sort something out, fingers crossed.

Scottland · 31 Mar 2006 at 08:55

tolien said:
No.

It does. That's why the limit's 43dB.

Ah ok then, I stand corrected.

tolien · 31 Mar 2006 at 11:53

Agr3sive said:
They basically gave me a load of waffle about we have run checkers

It's not necessarily waffle.

tolien said:
without your current stats (and the result from the BT checker), it's hard to comment.

Sending out an engineer isn't going to do anything, and forcing it won't work (the same as it won't for any other ISP) - the system will refuse the order, the end.

Teal · 31 Mar 2006 at 12:21

These are often the hardest problems to resolve as the ISP genuinely does not have the ability to 'force' and order through, or to get the line 'fixed' by an engineer.

From BT Wholesale's point of view the line is not broken, it just won't deliver results that give them confidence that it will handle more than 1Mb.

Lines do deteriorate over time and a line can very easily drop below a limit that it was previously above. The limits don't mean that above the line works at a certain speed and below they don't. The limits were based on an assessment of the quality levels needed to minimise the chance of fail requiring engineer intervention so they are set to ensure that more than the minimum quality is required.

I am not suggesting that you do this if it is not the case, but if you are also suffering from some degradation of voice quality on your line caused perhaps by the same corrosion that is probably responsible for the reduced ADSL capability of your line then you can report that to the voice side of BT and they will often carry out repairs that can result in an improved line quality. If there are no voice problem though there isn't much you can do.

tolien · 31 Mar 2006 at 12:27

It's also possible it's a Guesstimator screwup.

TechnoCorruption · 31 Mar 2006 at 12:54

Whatever the problem is, the bottem line is 1mb + 40gb for £30.99 is nothing short of ripping me off, if I knew when I took the contract out that I would only get 1mb I wouldnt have agreed to it.

tolien · 31 Mar 2006 at 12:59

It's up to 2Mbps, so doubt you'll have a hope of getting out of the contract.
If the guesstimator says 1Mbps, then your only hope's either wait for Max, or LLU. No other ISP's going to offer you more (yet).

Teal · 31 Mar 2006 at 13:11

The only hope I can see is if they didn't contact you when the original 2Mb order failed and just re-submitted it for 1Mb without your agreement then you may have a way out.

Try and get this escalated to a Manager, and as politely as possilbe point out that you should have been advised that the 2Mb order had failed as you would not knowingly have proceeded with a 1Mb order.

WOMBATWILSON · 31 Mar 2006 at 15:40

Teal said:
I am not suggesting that you do this if it is not the case, but if you are also suffering from some degradation of voice quality on your line caused perhaps by the same corrosion that is probably responsible for the reduced ADSL capability of your line then you can report that to the voice side of BT and they will often carry out repairs that can result in an improved line quality. If there are no voice problem though there isn't much you can do.

and if they find no problem with the voice side of things they will send you a nice bill for £115 for engs time

Teal · 31 Mar 2006 at 15:56

As I said, don't report a voice problem unless there is one.

They can't bill you for reporting a real problem, they can and will bill you if you waste engineers time with a false report, although it is more common for them to do that with ADSL engineers than with voice engineers in my experience.

bornslippy · 2 Apr 2006 at 00:09

Agr3sive said:
Whatever the problem is, the bottem line is 1mb + 40gb for £30.99 is nothing short of ripping me off, if I knew when I took the contract out that I would only get 1mb I wouldnt have agreed to it.

It is a rip off, considering that you can get 1mb unlimited for a lot less - and that you had 2mb with a different company. Don't bt get around this by saying up to 2mb per second, with the emphasis on up to? Surely they should have informed you that you could only get 1mb, but perhaps they don't have to because of the up to 2mb.

I've recently migrated from bt yahoo as was paying 26.99 for 1mb. We had 2mb in the house up the road but when we transfered we could only get 1mb. Luckily, our twelve month contract had long expired. I find phoning them a nightmare.